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The most up to date post car seats: Non-Toxic Flame Retardant Free Car Seats.
See my latest car seat post as a follow up to all of the information below!
UPDATE 4/8/14: Recently Orbit has made some changes to their car seat and the Oeko-Tex certification. They use to be the only car seat manufacturer to have both the fabric and foam Oeko-Tex certified. They no longer use the same company for the foam. I was told that the foam company went out of business. Orbit will not disclose any information about what flame retardant is being used in their foam. I read a report that a third party tested the foam and it contained brominated flame retardants. Orbit still claims that they don’t use brominated flame retardants. They will not give me any information about when this change was made. I am sending a sample of the foam from my car seat away to get tested to find out what flame retardants they use. Until we have more information I personally would not buy the Orbit. I don’t have an answer about which one I would buy though. I will update this as soon as I know more.
4/30/14 – I had the foam on my Orbit tested and the foam inside the fabric came back positive with TDCPP flame retardants. The Stryofoam attached to the car seat came back showing no flame retardants. I no longer recommend Orbit. I will update more soon.
What is TDCPP?
TDCPP, or tris (1,3-dichloro-2-propyl) phosphate, is an organophosphate flame retardant that is being used to replace PentaBDE. TDCPP, which is used as an additive flame retardant in resins, polymers, latexes, and foams, is most widely used in the US (annual estimations are 4,500-22,700 metric tons).1 There is evidence that TDCPP is a probable carcinogen and a developmental neurotoxicant2, as well as an endocrine disruptor in fish.
I have spent many of months agonizing over my son’s car seat. I know that they have chemical flame retardants sprayed on the foam, the cover and the sun shade and it bugs the crap out of me each time I put him in the car seat. It’s so, so bad for him. Obviously, I’m aware that the car seat is keeping him safe and safety is my first priority which is why I keep using it. I’ve gone back and forth and done tons of research trying to find the perfect car seat. Here in the US there isn’t a car seat sold without the use of flame retardants (since it’s a federal law requiring it). The thing I don’t understand is that wool and cotton are natural flame retardants – why don’t car seat manufacturers use those?
Before our son was born we went to a big box baby store and bought a car seat that rated well, and well frankly, we ended up buying the one with the fabric we liked the best. We have the Chicco Keyfit 30 in Cubes. As I was learning more about toxic items that my son was using when he was little I learned about how toxic a car seat can be. I stumbled across the Environmental Work Group’s database and searched our car seat. You can search your car seat here. It ranked low for toxic chemicals which made me feel better. Then of course I kept researching and realized that the EWG, while great, isn’t testing for everything. Even though my car seat ranked “low” it actually just had a different chemical flame retardant used in it than what they were testing for. When I looked up that chemical online I wanted to cry when reading the symptoms it can cause and the organs it affects. So I began the search for the convertible car seat we would need to use since he was bigger. I kept wanting to find one that didn’t use any chemicals which lead to many months of procrastinating. This now makes me sad since my son continued to use his chemical filled car seat BUT we don’t even use the car seat daily (at least that is how I am rationalizing the continued use). I also read that the sun shades are loaded with fire retardants so I took that off right away. My search kept bringing me back to Orbit. They are the ONLY car seat manufacturer to be Oeko-Tex 100 certified. This means that they are the only car seat on the market in the US that tests for, and does not use, 100 toxic chemicals including most flame retardants and lead. You can read more about Oeko-Tex 100 standards here. You can also read more about Orbit’s safety here.
There has been a lot of talk about companies not using flame retardants in car seats anymore since so many parents are upset about it. I’ve seen that Brittax is saying this (which from everything I’ve read is that they are using some of the worst chemical flame retardants still on their car seats). From what I understand, they are NOT removing chemical flame retardants from their car seats but instead no longer will be using the chemicals they are currently using and will just be using new ones. It’s a federal law to make sure the car seats are fire proof so the ONLY natural way around this is using wool and cotton. There isn’t one company that is moving that direction, not even Orbit.
So what it comes down to is picking the least toxic car seat you can find with good safety ratings. My choice for our convertible car seat is Orbit. I know that they have to be tested according to Oeko-Tex and that makes me feel better. I wish I had known all this information before our son was born and I would have started with the Orbit. When you know better you do better.
If you want to go even a step further you can replace your car seat cover. On Etsy The Sassy Stork makes some organic car seat covers. She doesn’t have covers for every car seat brand. This does remove the warranty on your car seat so if you are comfortable with that then go ahead. Nollie Covers also makes organic car seat covers for most all brands of car seats. They aren’t cheap but it may be worth it to you. I have heard that using Nollie Covers doesn’t not void your warranty as she is the only car seat cover that is approved by the car seat companies. I HAVE NEVER VERIFIED THIS. I would verify this information before purchasing though. Update: I’ve purchased from both. Nollie Covers was horrible to work with. Major delays, lack of communication and not make all that great. Sassy Stork has been great to work with, better quality and better price!
A lot of people think that if they wash their car seat that will remove most of the chemicals which is not true. The flame retardants are meant to stay in there and not be easily removed. Using regular detergent will not remove the flame retardants. I’ve read that using soap flakes can remove the flame retardants over time and many, many washes. Using soap flakes is not recommended by car seat manufacturers and I believe it voids your warranty as well. If you are trying to remove some of the chemicals that your baby is touching soap flakes may work. Update: It does not work to remove them completely. My car seat still tested positive for Tris after I washed it many times.
UPDATE: There are a lot of comments on this post related to Diono and if they use flame retardants in their car seats (fabric and foam). They have told many commenters, and myself, repeatedly that they do not use flame retardants in the Radian car seat in several fabric colors. I literally called Diono at least 10 times trying to get to the bottom of this but they kept saying that they didn’t use FR. It came out today, months after they were telling us they didn’t, that they actually DO use flame retardants in their foam. They won’t disclose which FR either. There is no way to pass federal flammability legislation without the use of chemical flame retardants while using foam in a car seat.
Good luck in finding a solution that works for you and your family!
PS – I decided I should have a disclaimer. The disclaimer is this: this is a decision you should make for your family. These opinions are my own. I am not being paid to have these opinions. You need to factor in the safety of any option that you choose. I am not responsible for any decision you make with regards to which car seat you choose.
What about the clek foonf ?I hear that the fabric they use is green certified Krypton fabric. I do know that they have a small amount of bromine on the bass of the seat I looked it up on healthystuff.org I called the company they told me they did on the base but it’s not touching a child skin. Can the clek foonf Be next best seats from orbit? I did get the orbit seat but unfortunately it does not recline I had to return it 🙁
Sorry for not getting back to you sooner – I was having WordPress issues. Just out of curiosity why did you have to return it because it didn’t recline? I’ve seen other people post that in reviews too and have always wondered about it. I have never owned a different convertible seat so I have never had the recline option (which is why I guess it hasn’t bother me).
Yes, I looked at the Foonf briefly about a year ago. Flame retardants can and do get in the air. If Bromine is on the base I would just make sure you open your car windows on warm / hot days to let the car air out a bit to try and minimize the amount of chemicals you breathe in. I ended up calling Clek to see what they used in their fabrics to make it flame resistant. They told me about that they use Crypton fabric and told me to look at their web site. I did and was confused / concerned about the chemicals that they use to make it stain resistant, etc. I called them and the 2 different people I talked to couldn’t tell me what chemicals were used. The first person did tell me that they use a “chemical bath” on the fabrics. So, to answer your question, at this point I don’t know – sorry. They took down my email and said they were going to talk to their chemists and get back to me. I will keep you posted!
Have you heard of Radian GTX? I was going to get the Orbit for my one year old but my mom was told the Radian is cheaper and did not have the chemicals. I am thinking it is the same thing. That the chemicals may not be on the fabric but they are on the base.
I have heard of Radian. I’ve heard other people asking / say that it doesn’t have chemicals either but from what I have read they just stopped using some and replaced it with others. I’ll try and dig into a little more and get back to you. The only car seat on the market that is tested to be free from toxic chemicals is Orbit. I wish there were more options out there!
Hi I just spoke to Diono who makes the radian car seat today. i was told that two fabrics in the R series the storm and rugby use materials that are inherently flame retardant. They do not add any chemicals to it because the material is naturally flame retardant. If you look at the safety area on dionos website i eventually found a statement regarding this information as well. As far as pvc and lead the woman told me there is none of that either. i am debating between the orbit, clek foonf and now the diono R120 or Rtx in those specific colors.
Let me know if you find this to be true? the woman i spoke to said she is 100 percent positive. I think that this car seat sounds like it may be free of flame retardants if the fabric naturally is flame resistant don’t you think?
Thanks for the email! This is really interesting news. I ended up calling them too just to ask some questions. They said, as they told you, that they don’t add any flame retardants to their fabric. That is great. It’s a polyester fabric and since polyester melts when near a flame they don’t have to add extra chemicals. They also said they didn’t put any chemicals on their base. I asked about the foam and they said they didn’t put any chemicals on that either. However, a lot of foam is already sprayed with fire retardants before companies get the foam. The foam would go up in a fire, and the law requires that it be fire retardant, so that is the only place that there might be chemicals. I asked them if they knew if the foam was sprayed before they got it and she didn’t know. She took down my info and was going to get back to me. I talked to her two days ago. I will keep you posted if I hear anything back. It’s just kinda like your couch. The foam cushions are sprayed with fire retardants but the fabric isn’t. We still are inhaling and absorbing the fire retardants from our couches. I also asked them why they didn’t get any extra certifications, like Oeko-Tek, if they are non-toxic (it seems like it would be a huge selling point for them) and she is going to get back to me on that too. SO…. I don’t know how much time you have before you are going to purchase your car seat. Hopefully they will call me back. I personally wouldn’t buy the Clek because they use Bromine on the base and whatever the “chemical bath” is that they dunk their fabrics in. I still like the Orbit and I also like that Diono doesn’t use chemicals on their fabrics. It would be good to know about the foam (I don’t see how it couldn’t be sprayed but I definitely could be wrong!). Thanks again for your email!
Have you ever seen bad crash ratings for the orbit car seat? i have seen some but am confused whether those were old or new? That was my reason for looking if there were any other options even though i already have the whole infant orbit system. i cant tell for sure whether that was on the infant car seat or the toddler car seat? lastly is orbit certified for the foam as well as fabrics?
I am willing to do the research and keep using my infant car seat (which technically she still fits into) until i know for sure which one i think is the least toxic. so if you hear anything from Diono please do let me know.
Thanks
Perl
Yes, I did see those crash ratings when I was researching the toddler seat and from everything I read they are old. Some changes were made and now they have very good ratings.
Orbit is Oeko-Tek certified on the entire car seat including the base, foam and fabrics. Oeko-Tek does allow the use of fire retardants but they have been studied and proven to be non-toxic. It’s a federal requirement that car seats be fire resistant. Diono would have to come up with a way to make sure the foam is fire resistant. Here is a statement from Orbit on being Oeko-Tek certified. “We go above and beyond to certify that there are no dangerous flame retardant chemicals in our fabrics. All Orbit Baby G2 products use fabrics certified by the International Oeko-Tex® Association to be completely free of PBBs, PBDEs, TRIS, TEPA, HBCDD, SCCP, and TCEP. Most fabrics and foams require treatment with some flame retardants in order to meet federally mandated car seat requirements. Of our fabrics that have been treated, they contain non-toxic flame retardants that have been extensively tested and thoroughly analyzed by the Oeko-Tex® Association. This Association’s toxicologists approve only a short list of flame retardants because all of these substances have undergone a thorough assessment by Oeko-Tex® from a human-ecological point of view. Oeko-Tex® has toxicologists in Germany and Switzerland review literature, history, test data, and toxicology reports before approving that the substance is harmless to human health.” Hope that helps. I will let you know if / when I hear back from Diono.
I followed up with them last week since I hadn’t heard back and they told me that they were still waiting to hear back from the foam supplier. She said she would call me by Monday but I still haven’t heard anything…
ok thanks for keeping me up to date!
I was seriously considering the Orbit system even though it will totally blow our budget, but then I read this:
http://www.healthystuff.org/product.details.php?bcmode=search&getrecno=22299 It seems like the Orbit maybe isn’t very clean? That was 2011, is the Oeko-Tex rating newer than that? I’m confused and sooooo frustrated trying to find something nontoxic! And don’t get me started on affordable nontoxic cribs! Thanks.
I hear you! It is totally frustrating. It took me months to pull the trigger. I had called them when I was researching and came across the same thing at healthy stuff. I was going to copy their response here but they have a disclaimer saying I can’t copy it. I would call and ask them about this. They will send you an email that really put me at ease. The basics of what they say is that healthy stuff tests things that are out in the open in stores (sometimes for a really long time before they test it) and that someone could have touched or placed something in their car seat that had lead or fire retardants on it. Then it would show up on the tests. Oeko Tek does random testing on their materials and they have to pass those random tests. I felt ok / good about the random testing of Oeko-Tek. Also, Oeko-Tek is NOT newer than 2011. With all of that info I ended up buying the toddler seat in Mocha just to be on the safe side :). The Oeko-Tek includes both their fabrics and the foam too.
I hear you about the crib thing too! It’s just crazy to have to spend so much to try and protect our little babies.
Thanks, I found the response to that study from Orbit Baby here: http://www.sproutsanfrancisco.com/get-educated/orbit-baby-car-seat-concerns-sprouts-response/ and also a bit more here: http://www.orbitbaby.com/en/support/healthystuff/ It really put me at ease too. They are very high priced but I am as certain as I can be that they are the very best in terms of chemical safety. Will be purchasing soon! Thanks again.
Not to be a pain, but now that I am looking more closely at the Orbit site itself,m they only claim to have Oeko-Tex rating for the FABRICS used, and specifically the ones that actually touch the baby. Nothing at all is said about the filling or foam, or the base. So freaked out. Did you get better information from the company itself? http://www.orbitbaby.com/en/articles/certified-fabrics/ Thanks! 🙂
I realize I didn’t totally finish answering your question in my other response. So, yes, both fabric and foam is Oeko-Tek certified. The base is plastic so no flame retardants are needed. This is all per Orbit. Also, in their email response to me asking about the Heathystuff findings they said that they did third party testing after those tests came out and they verified the safety. Hope that helps.
Thanks, I found the response to that study from Orbit Baby here: http://www.sproutsanfrancisco.com/get-educated/orbit-baby-car-seat-concerns-sprouts-response/ and also a bit more here: http://www.orbitbaby.com/en/support/healthystuff/ It really put me at ease too. They are very high priced but I am as certain as I can be that they are the very best in terms of chemical safety. Will be purchasing soon! Thanks again.
Great!
I noticed that the toxicity levels for the car seats on most of these websites is from 2011. Is there any kind of updated data out there nearly two years later? Thanks for taking the time to write this blog – very helpful information.
You are welcome 🙂 I felt I needed to share all the research I was combing through since I figured I wasn’t the only one! A lot of the testing is old. 2011 and even 2008! Healthystuff is great but the are small and only can do so much. I haven’t heard if they are going to do any more updates. I would hope they would soon. If I hear anything I’ll let you know.
After reading your blog and the comments above I feel confident that orbit is probably the least toxic choice in our country. However, this is my first child so my knowledge on this subject is small. I told my husband, who is very knowledgeable and health conscious, about the expensive orbits car seat and he claimed to think that the only toxic component of car seats was the fabric and foam. He suggested getting a cheaper car seat and replacing the cover within an organic one. Will this approach solve the toxicity issue? Or is there toxic materials in the plastic car seat itself? I already know about BPA in plastics, but what do you know about car seat plastics? I am willing to spend the money on an orbit one but at the same token, if I can get one cheaper and put an organic cover, that might be an option. Just wanting to remain open minded. Although I do pretty much refuse to expose my child to toxic materials, if at all possible. Any recommendations or advice? Hope to hear from you soon. Two more questions: can you buy an orbit infant car seat without the base? I read it can be used without the base. Maybe that would save some money. Seems like the toddler one is sold without the base. And can the toddler one be used without the base too? How long can your infant use the infant seat? I read until 30 lbs or 32 inches……when will that be? When the babys one? After one? What’s your general experience, moms?
Hi! You are right, an alternative is to buy an organic car seat cover and replace the existing cover. However, that voids your warranty so you should be aware of that. That is a choice you will have to make. If the foam is sprayed with flame retardants, then they can still get in the air (even if you are using a different cover). As far as I know most have flame retardants since it’s a federal law to make sure that a car seat is flame resistant. It’s hard to know how much but it’s the same concept as your couch. The foam is toxic and it gets through the fabric and is found in the dust on your floors. So, it is an option but it’s something you will have to weigh to figure out if it is right for you or not. As far as the plastic base, you don’t have to worry too much about that since they don’t have much contact with it. Some companies do spray the base with flame retardants – like Clek does. Orbit and Diono do not. I haven’t looked into the bases of other companies but if there is a car seat you are looking at I would definitely give the company a call and ask.
I believe you can buy the infant seat without the base. We didn’t get the Orbit for the infant seat (I didn’t know how toxic car seats were when we bought our infant seat). For the toddler seat the only purpose of the base is so that the seat can swivel when getting your child in and out. It’s a really, really handy feature. I know that the toddler seat would work without the base. I would have to assume that the infant seat would as well but I would double check with Orbit first.
So, the height and weight restrictions all depend on how big your baby is. We have a larger baby / toddler. He has always been big. At 16 months he is probably 27 pounds. I’m not sure how tall he is. Most likely you would hit the height restrictions before the weight. He still fit within the requirements for the infant seat we were using but he really didn’t like being in it anymore. Once we moved to the toddler seat he liked it much more. He could see out the windows and had more room. So, I think that for most people your child won’t hit the requirements before you want to move them just for their comfort.
As far as general advice to avoid toxins – it’s hard. I do my best and keep my home as non-toxic as possible but the world is a toxic place. I have to let go a bit when we are out and about. I really struggled watching him play with something when I knew it was toxic (when we weren’t at home). I have had to come to terms with that because I can’t control everything :). So I guess my advice would be make the things your baby uses everyday as non-toxic as you can. You will be doing more than most!
Thank you soooo much! Very helpful! I did read on several websites that the infant orbit car seat can be used safely without the base. If the infant seat can be ordered separately then hands down, that is my choice for sure. I haven’t been able to find it sold separately and may need to contact the company directly. Thanks again for your help!
Great! Hopefully you can find it without the base!
Hi, thank you for all the information! Outside of the orbit what carseat would you consider to be the least toxic? I really wish we could go that high but really can’t. I think we could possible go as high as the Diono…do you think that would be the next best option?
That is such a hard question. Diono never called me back to tell me if their foam was free of flame retardants or not. I called twice. I like that they don’t use chemicals on the fabric or base. So maybe that would be my 2nd choice. The hard thing is not knowing about the foam. If it has toxic chemicals then they will get through the fabric and in the air. I’ll try calling them 1 more time and see if I can get an answer. Also, it’s only a few different fabrics that Diono has that are flame retardant free. I’ll get the names of those too and let you know!
Any information on buying a car seat in Canada? Maybe their toxin use is better than ours?
I don’t know for sure but if I had to guess their toxin use is WAY better than ours. Same goes for Europe. From what I understand companies can’t / won’t ship those types of items to the US because of our laws. I’ve even heard of people having friends in other countries ship car seats, strollers, etc because they have way less, or no toxic chemicals, and they get confiscated. Our laws on these types of things are way behind the rest of the world.
Hey there..Again! Lol!
I saw that you were looking into Diono, and I just wanted to let you know I talked to a lady today (And yesterday, lol). I asked her If the carseats contain Lead, PVC, Arsenic, bromide, chlorine, chloride, BPA, cadmium, PBB or PBDE’s, and the answer to all of those were no.
She said that the Storm and Rugby don’t have any flame retardants added, and she also said that foam was NOT treated (I said that I thought it was a law, and she said not that she was aware of, that she had contacted the manufacturer of the foam they receive from and they said no retardants are added. I guess maybe because it’s a California law and they assemble their car seats in Washington? I’m not sure, but that is what I was told.) I was also told that they didn’t have Oeko-Tex 100 certification because only two of their car seats meet the criteria for the certification—the Rugby and the Storm.
Just thought I’d pass the info along!! 🙂
Thanks for letting me know! I contact them after you sent me this and they still didn’t get back to me. I went on vacation and am now getting back to this 🙂 I now have 3 calls into them after they said that they were waiting to hear back from the foam manufacturer. That is good to hear that they told you that. I wonder why they never got back to me. I’m glad there seems to be another option!
Hi, I am writing from Canada. Unfortunately, the Orbit toddler seat is not approved for use here – and it is actually illegal to use a non approved carseat. It is frustrating because the Orbit infant seat is approved. So, I am looking for the next best option and am trying to decide between the Diono Radian in Storm or the Clek Foonf. I like the fact that the Foonf is made in Canada but do not like the stain resistant fabrics – even if they are GreenGuard certified. As for seats purchased in Canada being safer, Canada is such a small market compared to the US that we get all the same version of products that you get, we just get less selection 🙁
That is good to know about Canada. Yes, I agree, I don’t like the stain resistant fabrics of the Foonf and I don’t like that they use bromine one the base. It sounds like Diono is saying that their foam doesn’t have flame retardants and they don’t use any flame retardants in the Storm & Rugby colors. They also don’t use flame retardants on the base either.
I am also from Canada considering the Foonf. There is a version without stain-resistant fabric, as well as a leather option but for 800.
Thanks for sharing! This whole conversation has been so helpful to me. Thank you all!
I’m glad you have found it helpful!
Hello! I’m also searching for a non toxic convertible and after reading on this site about the Diono I found this from their website: http://server.diono.com/helpspot/index.php?pg=kb.printer.friendly&id=4
Hi! Thanks so much for all of your research, I know from my own hours spent how time consuming and frustrating this can all be. I need a booster now, my son is 7, and can’t find any new info on safe ones. Since that last report was done in 2011, the boosters mentioned have been discontinued, at least the ones I was looking at that were USA made, which is important to me as well. Do you have any tips?
I’m sorry, I don’t. I haven’t even started looking at boosters. It can be so frustrating that it is so hard to find something that seems like it should be common place – safe and non-toxic. I’ll reply again if I come up with something!
Thanks! After much reading I’m leaning to the Clek oobr, it was rated really well on the healthy stuff list, it’s made in the USA, and looks like it’s the safest (so far) bet. I hope so.
I would also call and ask them about what flame retardants they use. I know they use Bromine on the base of the convertible seat which is not good. I think that safety wise they are great. I also didn’t get anywhere with the company that makes their fabric but anything stain resistant makes me leery. Healthy Stuff is great but only tests for a handful of chemicals. My infant seat rated really well on HS but I later found out it used some pretty toxic flame retardants that Healthy Stuff didn’t check for. Did you also check Diono?
I know, I thought the exact same thing – stain resistant material is just not good. However, I’m thinking I can always get an organic cover. According to the rating, the oobr rated really, really low for flame retardants (bromine), 96 for base, 0 for seat. I’d rather have none…And it bothers me that the ratings vary from model to model. Especially, since there’s no way of knowing how this years models compare to the ones tested. I checked out Diono, but they’re made in china, which is just not good either. I won’t buy it if it’s made there. Did you just read the article about the kids’ shoes caught as they were imported from there? Burned them all, because of high lead content. Besides the fact that I just don’t buy stuff made there, period. I spend way too much time on the computer researching product information. We just shouldn’t have to be the ones doing the leg work. 🙁 All in all, so far the best rated one I can find is the Clek oobr. I’m hoping they only got better since 2011.
I agree with you 100% about buying things from China. Besides my stainless steel water bottle (since that is where they all come from), the Orbit was my only other purchase from China. I talked in length to Orbit and felt ok about it only since it was Oeko-Tek certified and there is 3rd party testing done. Other than that, I won’t buy toys, shoes, clothes, etc from China.
Yes, the shoes with lead is crazy! I have been meaning to do a blog post on shoes because it took me forever to find a couple of companies that make truly non-toxic shoes that aren’t made in China. Have you seen Soft Star Shoes? I love them!
I think your decision is a good one about the booster seat. Did you find out what flame retardant they use on the foam? If you did, can you let me know? I just like to keep up to date. When I called them previously they couldn’t give me an exact answer about the convertible seat (and I never asked about the booster).
I need to find that out (the fire retardant) for sure. According to the healthystuff site, there’s nothing in the seat itself, just the base. I wasn’t aware Orbit was made in China, I didn’t get that far since they don’t have boosters.
YES! we get soft stars for our family! 🙂 I have a pair and Caleb has gone through many. I love that they are made here and with eco-friendly materials, but I do wish they were a bit more durable. Granted, Caleb is a young, active (very) boy, but we have had to have every pair so far resewn after the toe box has come apart. 🙁 Can’t have it all, it would appear. Can’t wait to see what you put together for that. 🙂
Thank you so much for your blog! I too have been procrastinating on the convertible seat and have been doing tons of research. It can be exhausting! But thankfully there is so much more awareness now about toxins etc. and I wonder if the healthy stuff car seat study has prompted many manufacturers to change things with the car seats. We have a Britax infant seat that rated low on their study and I love the Britax brand. We are also looking into the Orbit or the Diono. Thank you for all of this information! Did Diono ever call back about the foam?
Hi! Diono never did call me back after calling them 3 more times…. which I feel like it tells me what I need to know. I have another reader that said that she called them and they told her that it didn’t have any FR and that they asked the supplier. I would have felt better if they had told me or called me back. They did call me back to tell me they would call me back when they had an answer but then I never heard again. Also, Britax is great for safety but sadly one of the worse for toxins. They use FR’s that Healthy stuff doesn’t test for. I do think HS has created a lot of awareness and is prompting change – which is great!
I finally heard back from Diono! I’m sure it’s been almost 2 months since my first call. I’ve literally called them almost 10 times. She finally got the answer for me. More details are in the last comment but they don’t add any flame retardants and still comply with the federal law.
Hi again! I told you I’d let you know what Clek had to say, so here it is:
“As for all of Clek’s seats we consider the health of our children and the environment when designing and selecting materials and components for manufacturing.
Recently healthystuff.org, an organization that tests for toxic chemicals in everyday products found our Olli and Oobr booster seats to be among the best in the booster seat category (http://www.healthystuff.org/departments/childrens-products/product.seatsbestworst.php). We will be testing our convertible seat shortly but we are looking at basically the same or similar components and materials as we use in our Oobr seat.All of our components must also comply with the restricted substances covered in the Global Automotive Declarable Substances List, Washington State RCW 70.240.020, US CFR TITLE 16 Part 1303 and US CPSIA Section 101a.
The partnership we have with Crypton Super Fabrics is one we formed mainly due to their ecological approach and the performance of the products. The fabrics repel moisture, bacteria and stains and contain no formaldehyde. The fabric uses a fluoro-based chemistry opposed to bromine or chlorine. You can find more detailed information on their products by downloading their Green Guides here: http://www.cryptonfabric.com/Resources.html. Crypton fabrics are also Green Guard Select Certified.
Also, you may already be aware that our seats are recyclable through our recycling program. Right now we are the only car seat company who offers this. We have formed strategic partnerships in both Canada and the United States to manage the disassembly and recycling or reintroduction of the plastic, metal, foam and fabric components into other products.”
Still trying to find out about their one fabric choice that differs and is less money, the Drift.
Thanks for updating! That link to the resources says it’s no longer available. When I called Crypton they couldn’t tell me what they used other than a “chemical bath” to make it stain resistant. I was just trying to figure out what that was but never got anywhere with them. Just doing a quick google search on fluoro-based fire retardants it looks like it is the same technology (for lack of a better word) as Teflan – which would concern me. We know cooking with Teflan is BAD so what about sitting on it (and having it absorb through your largest organ / skin)? I found this on the EPA’s website – http://www.epa.gov/opptintr/pfoa/pubs/faq.html#concerns:
What is PFOA?
PFOA is an acronym for perfluorooctanoic acid, a synthetic (man-made) chemical that does not occur naturally in the environment. PFOA is sometimes called “C8.”
Companies use PFOA to make fluoropolymers, substances with special properties that have thousands of important manufacturing and industrial applications. PFOA can also be produced by the breakdown of some fluorinated telomers, substances that are used in surface treatment products to impart soil, stain, grease, and water resistance.
EPA’s efforts on perfluorinated chemicals (PFCs) are not limited to only PFOA. EPA is also investigating other PFCs, including perfluorooctyl sulfonate (PFOS), higher homologues of PFOA and PFOS, and other partially fluorinated chemicals that are potential precursors of these chemicals. Read more about definitions of other perfluorinated compounds.
What are the concerns related to PFOA?
PFOA is very persistent in the environment and has been found at very low levels both in the environment and in the blood of the general U.S. population. Studies indicate that PFOA can cause developmental and other adverse effects in laboratory animals. PFOA also appears to remain in the human body for a long time. All of these factors, taken together, prompted the Agency to investigate whether PFOA might pose a risk to human health and the environment at the levels currently being found, or at levels that might be reached in the future as PFOA continues to be released into the environment.
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What are fluoropolymers and telomers and how are they used?
Fluoropolymers impart valuable properties, including fire resistance and oil, stain, grease, and water repellency. They are used to provide non-stick surfaces on cookware and waterproof, breathable membranes for clothing. They are employed in hundreds of other uses in almost all industry segments, including the aerospace, automotive, building/construction, chemical processing, electrical and electronics, semiconductor, and textile industries.
After reading this and several other pages really quickly I would NOT feel comfortable having my child sit in this car seat from a toxicity stand point.
Great. 🙁
I then sent a message asking about their Drift color/fabric option and this is what they say: ” the Drift fabric is a vehicle grade fabric that we receive from an automotive supplier. We are currently testing this material so we can provide you with a breakdown.”
That doesn’t make me feel any better. But then, what car seat will? I’m stumped. All of the others are just as bad or worse. We’ll just walk. Not really joking here, I try to have us bike and walk just about everywhere anyway, now this is just extra encouragement. 🙁
That’s funny about walking… and not all at the same time. It is crazy that it is so hard to find a locally made, non toxic car seat. Regulations have to change!
I hear you though about walking. I try to walk most places too but we definitely need our car! I don’t use it daily though. So is buying an organic car seat cover out the question? It starts adding up so quickly!
Oh I know, it does add up. But they are so worth it. It’s just a shame the burden has to lie on us and not the manufacturer. I had already made up my mind to buy an organic cover regardless, so I think at this point that’s all I can do. He has to have a car seat in the car. So I’ll go with the one that seems like the best option, and right now that seems to be the Clek, and get a cover for the seat. Unless something changes drastically tomorrow, like a new “green”, made in America car seat company, there’s not much choice. It would be nice to have a government that worked for us and not the corporations, wouldn’t it? 🙁
I completely agree! I think your solution for your car seat seems like a great one!
Did you get the sun shade for your orbit car seat? I know you said sunshades contain chemicals but wondered if that also applied to orbit’s? Again thank you for your blog. I have been looking for information like this – that takes all the research out there and puts lists together of recommended items 🙂
Thanks for your comment! Our toddler seat doesn’t have a sunshade (unless we took it off in the beginning and I already forgot!). I would think since it’s Oeko-Tek certified that the sunshade would be ok to use 🙂
I have been quietly following along this post and all the comments over the last month or two as I too procrastinate buying a car seat for our daughter as I do endless (and disconcerting) research on the toxins in them all. My husband actually told me (in reference to an outdoor swing) that while he appreciates my research and concern for our family’s health, I sometimes take the fun out of things because we can never just go out and buy something; I need to tirelessly investigate every single thing first! I’m okay with that. 🙂
Thanks in large part to this site, we narrowed it down to the Orbit and Diono. Like everyone else, I wish they weren’t manufactured in China but have to weigh that against other pros/cons and try to put at least a small amount of trust in the companies and third party testing! I did want to just chime in that I too contacted Diono and they answered with no hesitation that there are NO flame retardants in their foam, and the Storm & Rugby fabrics are also FR-free. I’d love them to have the certification that Orbit has, and I do feel that Orbit is probably the very best out there in terms of toxicity, but weighing all factors (toxicity definitely first and foremost, but also cost, size/bulkiness, portability…), I think the Diono is the right fit for our family. Everyone will and should obviously make their own decisions, but I did want to share my experience with Diono customer service in case that helps anyone else in this process!
Thanks, naturalbabymama, for your site!
I’m totally that person too! I research and then over research and can never just go out and buy something. You can tell him at least you are saving money by not impulse buying :). For an outdoor swing it’s totally important to research. Treated lumber is SO toxic. I would only buy cedar and then you would have to finish it yourself (probably yearly which is a pain) with a non-toxic sealer. Also check out Kettler – http://www.kettlerusa.com/toys/swingsets. They are made in Germany (which has some of the strictest standards in the world) and have metal swing sets that are painted with lead free paint. I think that would be a great option.
Thanks for updating me on Diono. Your comment prompted me to call them again. I was feeling annoyed that they hadn’t called me back. What I was told yesterday was that they still haven’t heard back from their foam manufacturer after reaching out to them 3 times. So they have never received an answer if the foam is coming to them with FR or not. She said again that they didn’t use FR though. I asked how they complied to the federal law that requires car seats to be fire resistant since foam is flammable. She didn’t know. She tried calling one of their engineers to find out. She called me again today to let me know the engineer is out until Friday but she will call me when he gets back to find out the answer. Something doesn’t seem right about their answer of no FR because of the federal law. I’m not sure how they are getting around it. I hope they prove me wrong! Anyways, not to confuse you any more but I do think it is great that they are going in the right direction. It’s so nice that they are offering fabrics that are FR free! IF, and I really hope I do, I hear back from them I will let you know.
Thanks for your comment!
Hmmm, I would be very interested to hear what they say. We are (were?) decided on the Diono but are on vacation and were waiting to order it until we get home, so now I might wait to hear what they tell you. I have wondered how they comply with the law…
Thanks for the swing info too. In an effort to be more “fun” but still relatively safe, we compromised and bought a little tikes baby swing (because we could go out to a local store one Saturday and have it hung and ready for swinging that afternoon). It’s plastic, but BPA, PVC & phthalate free, and made in Ohio, so we felt pretty good about that. I love the look and idea of a wood one but we were also concerned about the finishes. There are some neat options on Etsy too – worth looking into.
Thanks for your reply!
One additional question: I am confused at how Orbit meets federal law without flame retardants in their foam… I know their fabrics are certified but in trying to figure out about the foam, I realized I don’t understand how Orbit seats handle the regulations and can’t quite find anything that explains it through a google search and looking at their site (unless I am missing something). You seem to have a great grasp on this so any explanation would be much appreciated!
There isn’t a car seat on the market that doesn’t use flame retardants. Oeko-Tek has a list of approved flame retardants that aren’t toxic like the traditional flame retardants that all the other companies use. Orbit’s fabric and their foam is Oeko-Tek certified. If you go back into my comments, I was talking with someone about this issue. Orbit sent me a statement on it but I felt like I couldn’t publish it here based on their disclaimers. A reader found it published on another blog and gives the link to it. Read that link, it is really helpful. Hope this helps 🙂
Hi Sarah,
I couldn’t figure out how to reply to our last thread but Diono did confirm with me that no flame retardants are used. They use foam that is not highly flammable. I’m glad they finally gave the details I was looking for.
I also couldn’t figure out how to reply further down the thread, but just wanted to thank you again for doing all this research and following up again and again to get that answer about the foam from Diono. We were away but I was planning to call again when I got home before biting the bullet and buying the Radian. Now I feel more confident and I am going to do it today (so interesting about the foam – why is everyone not using this?!). Thanks also for your explanation of Orbit’s foam flame retardancy – I knew I had read it somewhere but couldn’t remember where, and reread your whole post (as well as looked on their website), but I didn’t think to reread all of the comments.
Keep up the good work!
I over research too and it drives my husband nuts! Maybe they should form a support group. Ha. Thank you for the link to the swing sets. That is another item on our purchase list!
Haha, a support group would be excellent!
So the new UppaBaby Mesa is out. What do you think about this?
Honestly, I have done any research on it. I think that using your existing one with a new cover would be fine. I’m become really leary of anything that comes out of China. I’m ok with the Orbit because it is third party tested. When I have some time I am going to go back through my blog and write where things are made. I just don’t trust things coming out of China – especially for kids. I mean they are finding lead paint in toys, high levels of lead in shoes, Halloween costumes, back to school supplies all coming from China. So I feel like if a company says they aren’t using toxic chemicals things are still happening there. So the long answer is that if it was me I would buy an organic cover for your existing car seat 🙂
I e-mailed Uppababy to ask about what they use in their strollers and car seat, here is their reply:
“All of our strollers are tested to the following industry standards:
ASTM F 833-07 Standards for Carriages & Strollers
16 CFR 1303 Lead content in surface coatings
CPSIA 2008 Improvement Act (Ban on Lead in substrates, Ban on Phthalates)
ASTM F2194-07 Bassinet Standards
CARB ATCM (California ) Formaldehyde emission levels
The following is a list of chemicals and whether they are used in our stroller manufacturing process:
Polybrominated Diphenyl Ethers (PBDE)- No
Polyurethane foam- Yes
Polyvinylchloride (PVC)- Yes, Phthalates free
Bromine- No
Lead- No
Chlorine- No
TDCP (Tris (1,3-dichloro-2-propyl) phosphate)- No
TCEP (Tris (2-chloroethyl) phosphate)- No
Phthalates- No
Our Mesa meets the following regulation standards:
– FMVSS 213 (Federal Motor Vehicles Safety Standards for Child Restraint Systems)
-FMVSS 302 (Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards for Flammability of Interior Materials)
-ASTM F 833 (Standard Consumer Safety Performance Specification for Carriages and Stroller)
-CMVSS 213 (Canadian Motor Vehicle Safety Standards)
We do not conduct test that are not yet required by regulatory agencies, such as side impact testing. The flammability standard referenced above, FMVSS 302, is intended to prevent harm to occupants in the event of post-accident vehicle fires.
As I do not have a more detailed list of chemicals and content, I suggest going onto the JPMA website for further information.”
Any comment on whether the Mesa is any better than the other options out there? The stroller materials seem to be better.
I would want to know what flame retardants they are using and where. They are only telling us that they don’t use one of the really bad ones. I also am somewhat surprised they use PVC. I am guessing that it is in the rain cover for the stroller but would be curious about that one too since PVC is not good. I’ve been really busy lately and haven’t had the time to call. If you call them again to find out about the FR will you let me know what they say? I’m also curious about the PVC. Keep me posted. From the info they gave you I can’t tell if they are any better or not…
So when I asked what specific fire retardant chemicals are used, and more specifically how they meet the flammability standard referenced, FMVSS 302, she couldn’t tell me. I responded asking where they used the FRs and PVC. I’ll report back when I get a replay. They have been really speedy and open with information which is great. I also felt ok with the PVC since it is phthalates free, are there still other harmful reasons not to use it?
So I had a couple spare moments and tried calling them too 🙂 The PVC is only used in the rain shield like I was thinking. No where else do they use it. PVC is not good so it’s best to avoid if at all possible. Which is why using rain shields aren’t good. It traps all the toxic stuff inside the stroller with your little one. She told me that they use non-chlorinated Tris on the foam only since it’s required by law. She said that it is the only way that can pass federal testing (which makes me wonder about Diono again!). Anyways, Chlorinated Tris is really bad and the Non-Chlorinated Tris is suppose to be not as toxic. I did a quick google search and couldn’t find anything more about non-chlorinated tris. Tris in general is bad but mostly that is the chlorinated tris. I honestly don’t know anything about non-chlorinated. I’ll see if I can find anything more when I have more time.
Has anyone tried calling the federal agency in charge of the FR regulations to see how the Diono might be able to pass without FR? Would it be the FHTSA?
It’s been on my list of things to do and your posted prompted me to do it! I got in touch with the correct department. They called me back today and left me a voicemail. I will give them a call back tomorrow and let you know what they have to say.
Thank you so much for doing this! Which agency did you call? I wasn’t even sure where to start. Looking forward to hearing more about what you find out!
US Dept of Transportation. I called someone else before and they directed me there. I returned their call yesterday and haven’t heard back yet. We’ll see what I find out!
So I talked to the gov’t agency Friday. All I found out is that they require car seat manufacturers (and cars as well) to meet certain flammability requirements. They don’t want the cars or seats to go up in flames before people can get out. That’s it. They don’t really care how it is achieved / they don’t require any chemicals to be used but it just needs to pass their test (that doesn’t burst into flames within a certain time frame). I’m still confused as to why EVERY car seat manufacturer (as well as car) uses chemicals instead of the foam and fabric that Diono is using. I’m just going to believe Diono I guess. I usually always take a company for their word because that is all you really can do. For some reason I’ve been having a hard time with this one…
I agree naturalbabymama, I also have a hard time with Diono’s claim, mainly because I don’t understand why others, especially Orbit, wouldn’t be using FR free foams and fabrics. But all I can do is take their word for it and hope that the seat is really what they say.
I called about the stain resistant fabrics I saw advertised on the box, and the customer service rep went to check with someone and came back telling me that no, Rugby and Storm are not stain resistant, only 2 other colors are (can’t tell you which ones but as long as it isn’t Rugby and Storm it didn’t matter to me). So that made me feel better about the seat.
Unfortunately I am not able to replace the cover with Nollie Cover, I called and she told me she doesn’t make them for Diono, it has to do with the way Diono makes their covers that it is too difficult to replace. So we will be keeping the original, but since it is supposedly FR free and not stain resistant I am ok with that. Overall I am happy with the seat.
Good to know that those fabrics are stain resistant free and also good to know about Nollie covers!
I think it’s possible that Diono is paying more for the materials than a company might pay for FR. If that’s true, though, I’d think they’d be announcing the lack of FR in marketing campaigns. It is a strange thing, but I’d assume that it comes down to cost when trying to answer why most use chemicals when they could just use the foam and fabric Diono is using.
I agree with you, I would think that they would be charging more if they are paying more especially since Orbit is so pricy.
If everybody were concerned about FRs then I’m sure they would put it front and center in their marketing campaigns. But honestly, a lot people either aren’t aware of the risks or are unconcerned. Proudly saying “Our car seats don’t have flame retardants” might scare away a lot of potential customers. I remember seeing some Amazon reviews for various car seats. Somebody brought up the dangers of FRs and many people said they were glad they DID have FRs. So I imagine that Diono is trying to appeal to all sides without alienating any potential customers…
It’s funny how people make comments like that – that they are glad they did have FRs. It just goes to show how uneducated most people are about this. ALL car seats have to maintain a certain standard when it comes to flammability. So if a car seat doesn’t use chemicals then they are achieving the same safety that the next safe seat that uses chemicals does. I personally don’t want my car seat going up in flames, as does everyone else, but I also don’t want my son sitting in a toxic, chemical filled seat either. For me that is a known risk that is happening daily. If companies would just use materials that were naturally fire resistant the problem would be solved! So for Diono they should be promoting the heck out of it. Saying that they meet all fire safety standards without the use of chemicals would catch a lot of attention – and maybe even change the car seat industry slowly.
Diono finally admitted that they DO use FR in the foam. How horrible that they were lying to everyone along the way.
RE: Diono finally admitted that they DO use FR in the foam. How horrible that they were lying to everyone along the way.
This makes me SO mad! We bought the Diono after doing an insane amount of research and hours of debating which was the right seat for us for so many reasons, #1 being toxicity. We have been using it for about 6 weeks and have really loved it. But if this is true, I want to see about returning it – not only because of the FRs but also on principle!
How did you find this out, naturalbabymama? (I believe you completely, of course, I am just curious how this came out?) And not that it is excusable because they absolutely SHOULD know what chemicals and materials are in their products, but do we know if they were just mistaken or if they really seemed to intentionally lie/mislead?
Ughhhhhhhhh. So mad and frustrated! But thank YOU, again, for all the work you are doing on this and for the community and wealth of information you have created here.
It came out today on Organic Baby University’s facebook page. I’ve had commenters from my blog post similar questions there. She was told the same thing that they don’t use FR in the foam. She kept questioning them and after talking to their supervisor they told her they do use FR in the foam. I ended up calling them after and asking one more time. They still were a little evasive and I asked again if they used FR in the foam and they finally said yes. I would be so mad too. I would hope that they were misinformed but the woman I talked to at least 10 times reached out to their engineers and other contacts within Diono. It makes me feel like they were lying. They have a script now that they read out. I would contact them and let them know that you were told by them that the foam didn’t have FR and now they are saying it does. I would ask them to take it back if that’s what you want to do. Also since they won’t disclose what FR they use it’s a little iffy. The good thing is that the fabric doesn’t use FR. The foam will break down and the FR will be released. It’s a choice that you will need to make. I’m going to update my blog just so everyone doesn’t have to read all the comments to figure this out.
I got the same info back in an e-mail on the PVC and also where they use FRs.
“PVC is only used on the rain shield not other parts. Flame retardants are used on the bassinet liner and pad. It is also used on the fabric parts of the Mesa.”
Since Nollie does not make covers for Diono specifically, does any one know where I can get flame retardant free & stain resistant free padding & covers for the Raidan RXT seat specifically? I just sent a message to the Etsy store mentioned in the post, the Sassy Stork, to ask if she makes them since I didn’t see any in her store, but I’m looking for a back up option. Thanks!
I don’t but I would try looking to see if any other shops on Etsy make them. Let us know if you find anything!
You ladies have been very helpful even though I am still confused. I had decided to get the orbit but can’t get in Canada, then I settled on the Britax but after going to pick it up today saw the Diono and actually had on the tag, chemical free – non toxic. Hubby wanted to get them right away but I wanted to research. I am so confused. Can they boldly just state non toxic if there are still toxins in the foam or wherever. I have sixteen month old twins and really want to get them out of their infant seats.
Well, they have said that they don’t add chemicals so that is why it probably says non-toxic. Non-toxic can mean many things and sadly I have found that a lot of times it doesn’t really mean non-toxic. I’m not saying that is the case here though. My question to them has been if the foam comes pre-treated (which it does in many instances). They have not been able to answer that question and the have not called me back – once again. I will try them again this week and see if I get anywhere.
I’m impressed you still have your 16 month olds in infant seats! My son started hating his infant seat. I’ll post if I ever hear back.
I gave them a call today and what I found out is what they have been saying. They don’t use any flame retardants in the foam. They also were finally able to verify from their foam vender that they do not add flame retardants before it gets to them. I asked how they are able to meet the federal flammability law without the use of flame retardants. She checked with her engineer and called me back and said that they type of memory foam that they use is not highly flammable. It all depends on the grade and density and what they use allows them not to add any chemicals. She also did tell me that the foam is just for comfort and can be removed if there are any concerns. Anyways, there you have it! It’s interesting that other companies are using flame retardants because of the law if it really just comes down to a type and density. I’m glad they finally answered my question 🙂
I hear you on how frustrating and upsetting this search can be. We, too, had decided on Orbit until I looked them up on Consumer Reports and found that their car seat did not do very well in tests. It ranks in about the middle of crash safety for car seats. It’s “good,” putting it in the middle of their scale. I’m willing to compromise on many things, but the ability of my car seat to keep my baby safe in a crash isn’t one of those things. It’s very frustrating. We ended up going with the Chicco KeyFit 30 in Limonata. Of all the seats made by Chicco, it’s the fabric that tested lowest for heavy metals and other chemicals in HealthyStuff.org’s tests. (http://www.healthystuff.org/departments/childrens-products/product.details.php?getrecno=22277) and it’s the highest rated seat for crash safety by Consumer Reports. I still feel like I’m borrowing from Peter to pay Paul. It’s horrific that we have to compromise on either our child’s health or our child’s safety. 🙁
Thanks for blogging about this and sharing your research!
Hi! Thanks for your comment. Sorry it took me so long to respond but I have been enjoying the last of summer before it ends. I also had the KeyFit for my son. As I’ve stated before HealthyStuff is great but they only test for a few things. There are many other toxic chemicals that are used that they don’t test for. The only flame retardant tested is bromine which the KeyFit doesn’t use and which is why this car seat tests low. From what I have been told the KeyFit used phosphate ester’s as their flame retardant. I wanted to share with you what I know about this flame retardant. First, it’s a nerve agent (which was enough for me to know I needed to get him out of that seat). It also hasn’t been tested officially on the safety of humans. Some tests have been done and this is what I found: Even at relatively low levels organophosphates (which is what phosphate ester’s are) may be hazardous to human health. The pesticides act on a set of brain chemicals closely related to those involved in ADHD, thus fetuses and young children, where brain development depends on a strict sequence of biological events, may be most at risk. A 2010 study has found that organophosphate exposure is associated with an increased risk of Alzheimer’s disease. Another study from the same year found that each 10-fold increase in urinary concentration of organophosphate metabolites was associated with a 55% to 72% increase in the odds of ADHD in children.
Above was low level exposure. Regular use in a car seat would probably increase the exposure. Other known issues caused by this flame retardant are: increased cancer, kidney, liver and brain lesions, decreased fertility and studies on animals showed a decrease in live births.
What is known is that your child will be sitting in a car seat that uses a flame retardant that is also a nerve agent. For me, the risk of the daily exposure to phosphate esters is a huge risk and a risk that I wish I never exposed my son to. If I had known I wouldn’t have. All car seats have to meet a safety standard. Consumer Reports additional testing is great and I am more than happy that my son is not absorbing harmful chemicals through his skin and lungs and that the seat was rated “Good”.
I am glad that you were able to make a decision for your family but wanted to write you back so that you had the full information available to you. You, like me, were only making decisions based off of HealthyStuff which is not the full picture for this car seat.
I’m about a week away from buying the Orbit Baby car seat but I just spotted the Nuna Pipa when ordering the Nuna Leaf. Says it’s made with certified Oeko-Tex® fabric. Your thoughts on this?
Sorry – did you already buy? I don’t know anything about this car seat. I would just double check with them that the foam is Oeko-Tek certified as well. If it is then I would think it would be a great option. I would ask if they use any FR on the base too.
That is awesome to know about the Diono!! It is good to know there are some choices. Hopefully with more research more non toxic ways can be found to make things. Thank you so so much for all your research!!!! It is sooooo appreciated!!
I am currently looking for a convertible car seat for my daughter and I keep delaying the purchase (and we really need it NOW) because I am so indecisive on which one is the best option. I narrowed it down to Diono Radian RXT in Rugby and the Orbit G2, but I just can’t make a choice between the two. I read the whole comment section here and it is very informative (thank you!), but I am still not able to make a decision I feel comfortable with. From what I just read it seems that Diono may even be a better choice since they claim to not need to use ANY fire retardants, since their foam density doesn’t require it, and they also claim to not use them in those 2 fabric colors. The frame is made from metal so no plastic to worry about either. It seems like that would be the best choice? Orbit, even though they use ‘better’ FR, they still do use them in both the foam and fabric, am I right? And the frame is plastic rather than metal and the plastic has to have some chemicals too. I was leaning towards the Orbit since it is certified and seems to have better reputation as far as the chemicals go, but isn’t it better to not have any FR in the fabric and foam (due to its inherent nature) plus the metal construction of the Radian, than to have some FR (even though safer but still chemicals) AND a plastic construction of the Orbit?? Thank you for all the research. I really hope I can finally order the car seat soon as my daughter is getting pretty tight in her infant car seat.
Hi there! I think all your comments are true and I agree with your thought process. I don’t like that either seat is made in China because you hear time and time again of them finding toxic substances that aren’t suppose to be in the item showing up (lead for example). I felt some reassurance that Orbit seats were subject to random third party testing with the Oeko-Tek. That being said, I think either seat would be good. I do like that Diono is using no FR’s. I would also go to a store and look at both if you can. I had a friend tell me that Diono reclines really far back and wouldn’t fit into her car (and she doesn’t have a really small car). Good luck!
Kami, how old is your child? As far as I can tell, there isn’t any foam in the Orbit car seat. It seems to be a kind of styrofoam (which could have its own problems, but I doubt has any flame retardants). There is also very little plastic on the Orbit, and probably a little more on the Diono, as the base of it is entirely plastic and larger in diameter than the Orbit base. As far as I understand it, there are no flame retardants used in the fabric of the Orbit car seat.
In reading the comments about car seats in general on Consumer Reports, they noted that for young infants, an infant car seat–like the Orbit–is safer, as the baby is more “curled up” and therefore needs a curved seat to better protect them. Convertible seats, like the Diono, are not as safe for infants because they aren’t curved. In addition, if you use a seat like the Diono, you’ll have to remove the baby from the seat every time you stop, which could wake them up and be tricky with an infant that can’t support their own head well.
Therefore, our plan, thanks to the comments here, is to use the Orbit until our baby reaches the weight limit (30 lbs) and switch to the Diono until they meet that weight limit.
Hope that helps a bit with the decision!
Thanks Laurie!
Laurie, my daughter is about to turn 14 months, so head support is not a problem. She is 23 lbs and 31 1/4 inches so she is rather tall for her age I think. And yes you are right, there is plastic in Diono, I went to look at it at a local Buy Buy Baby today, somehow I imagined metal base meant just metal no plastic but that is not the case, it is plastic with some metal. Unfortunately I wasn’t able to find Orbit in any store, no one seems to carry it so I can’t look at it, just online. They told me at BBB that a new G3 is coming out this fall, I wonder how it is going to be different from G2, but I can’t wait that long. That’s good to know that there are no FR in the fabric and foam of the Orbit. Where would the FR be then, in the plastic base? (since they admit to using some but safer alternatives, they don’t claim to be FR free).
We are most likely going to FF the seat from the beginning, I know it’s not recommended for as long as we can keep them rear-facing (and i am sure some are going to judge me for it) but my daughter absolutely hates her infant car seat, going anywhere with her is almost impossible as she will scream and cry hysterically and it isn’t easy to just ignore it, she gets herself really worked up. We are very limited in where we go because I always dread her losing it in the car seat. So we are hoping that the problem is she doesn’t like rear-facing and will be happier when looking forward (several people I spoke to whose kids hated car seats got better when they switched them to FF, and many ended up doing so as soon as legally allowed because of this). So unless my daughter equally hates FF (in which case it doesn’t matter and I might as well keep her rear-facing) we will be using the car seat FF from the start. So the swivel feature of the Orbit is not something we will use (not planning on getting the base), and I also heard that neither Diono or Orbit recline in the FF position. A person I spoke to at BBB actually suggested Diono if I plan on FF now since it has the metal base and so more protection for my daughter than most other car seats (he said his son hated RF too and they switched him at 1 year so he had a lot of sympathy for me, he was also very knowledgeable). But you have a good point too, that the Orbit may be more curved and so safer for younger babies. I also wonder which one is less upright?? They both seem to be pretty upright and don’t recline in FF and I would prefer a little more recline so my daughter can sleep in it (we hope). Diono says it does recline in both RF and FF but at BBB they told me that it doesn’t in FF and the only way to recline it is to put a wedge under the seat (not sure how this counts as 2 recline positions as I saw advertised).
We don’t plan on taking the seat out with my daughter in it, I have a hard time lifting her in her infant car seat already.
And does anyone know how the re-threading works in the Orbit?
Thanks!
Orbit doesn’t recline at all – facing either direction. It is pretty upright. Most of the negative reviews on amazon are because it doesn’t recline. I hope your daughter likes the convertible seat better! My son was starting to hate the infant seat too. He is much better being able to see out the windows.
I decided to call Orbit and find out a few more answers. The foam they use is a EPP foam which is a high grade foam according to Orbit. They do treat both the foam and the fabric with an Oeko-Tek certified FR. They buy the fabric and foam though a Oeko-Tek manufacture and they are already pre-treated but in accordance with Oeko-Tek and claim to be non-toxic. If you look at the Oeko-Tek website you will see what is allowed. I asked if they thought of using foam or fabric that is naturally FR and therefore wouldn’t have to treat their products and she told me that according to the federal regulation of car seats “fire retardants have to be used”. She said that they make foot muffs that are wool and cotton and don’t have FR but they are able to get around the FR on those because it isn’t part of the car seat.
It’s such a confusing industry. Diono says they got around it and Orbit is saying that there is no way around using FR. Anyways, that’s the info I got today 🙂
I have to say that your decision to not place her RF has a plus side. I’m with Forget Me Not USA and we see case after case of children being forgotten in the car because the seats are placed in the wrong spot in the rear (behind the driver, where they can’t be seen) and when they are RF, the driver cannot see them and is extra prone to forgetting that they are there, especially while the child is sleeping. I know, seems impossible. Good luck with the tough choice, I’m still having a hard time not only finding a non-toxic booster seat but one that’s made here in America as well. 🙁
naturalbabymama: That is interesting and more confusing for sure! So Orbit claims they have to use FR in their fabric and foam, and being the most eco-friendly car seat company you would think they would prefer not use any if they had the option legally, while Diono (who is not even advertising the non-toxic nature of their seat that much) claims that they don’t have to use any FR in their fabric and foam. Sounds fishy to me. IF this is true, Diono would seem like the better option, but somehow it is hard to believe that Orbit would choose to use FR if there is a way to use fabric and foam that doesn’t require the use of any, being that their customer base is the most eco/ health conscious bunch and they should try to appeal to them as much as possible (and not using any FR would be a great selling point). Diono, on the other hand, doesn’t even use the fact it doesn’t have any FR to their advantage enough if that is really the case. Somehow something doesn’t seem right. Either Diono is lying (or giving away wrong information unknowingly) or Orbit uses FR when there is a better way. I am never going to buy my daughter’s car seat at this rate, why does it have to be so hard and confusing to make the best choices for our babies?
Cherryl: Yes, forgetting your baby in the car seems like an impossible thing to do but I did see a mother telling her story on Oprah of how that happened to her, she left her baby in the car all day while at work (she forgot to drop him off at daycare and didn’t realize it till the end of the day) and unfortunately her baby died. I didn’t know something like that could happen but like you said sadly it does. Even though my husband likes to joke ‘just don’t forget the baby’ (I do tend to be forgetful and forget items all the time), my daughter and I have been joined at the hip since birth, I am a co-sleeping SAHM and I haven’t spent much time apart from her so when I do leave on occasions I feel like I am missing a limb. LOL! And I don’t know if there are any seats not made in China (that are available in the US)?
Yep, there are; the Clek is made in America. 🙂 One of the highest safety ratings as well. But, like all of them, there is a negative; the fabric has a stain resistant chemical. Somewhere here in the comments we discussed it in more detail. It’s probably the one I’ll go for, I’m just procrastinating in the hopes of discovering the perfect seat.
Yes, it is so sad that so many children are being forgotten in cars. Average of 38 per year, just in the U.S. Every week. 🙁 The good thing is that they are totally preventable, all it takes is awareness and taking the few seconds it takes to implement the safety steps. When you’re aware, as you said that you are, that everyone has moments of forgetfulness (driving and getting to your destination without realizing how), that’s the time to put a plan into action. Even if you KNOW it can’t happen to you. The easiest and cheapest is to make it a habit to look into the back seat every time you exit the car. The “Look before you lock” campaign. There are so many other tips. You can find some at kidsandcars.org and forgetmenotusa.com. And regarding the comment your husband made, I saw a news report about a dad who forgot the couple’s baby in the car (who died). The mom said she had just seen a news report where a dad had forgotten his baby and she told her husband if he ever did that she’d kill him. He scoffed and said only a moron (something to that affect) would do that. Days later he did the same. So sad, and the thing is he KNEW it could happen and did nothing to prevent it. 🙁
Cheryll – thanks for the good links and topic about remembering to look before you lock! We only have 1 car seat so that car has become our son’s “car”. Whenever we are driving that car it means he is with us. I also am with him a majority of the time so if he is not with me it is unusual. I’ve heard of people also saying to put the diaper bag, work bag, purse, etc in the back seat so that you always have to open the back door. So sad when it is so preventable.
Good luck with the booster seat. I so wish that the perfect seat existed too. It should, it’s crazy that it doesn’t!
Wonderful idea!! And thanks for adding the extra tips, I didn’t want to take up too much of your space. 🙂
Yes, it is super confusing. I found getting info from Diono really, really hard. It didn’t make me feel good about it. The customer service rep was really nice but didn’t know anything. She would always say she would call me back then nothing. She did get huffy with me a couple of times too. However, at the end of the day she claims to have reached out to several people and claims that they don’t use FR. I agree with you that if they are really NOT using FRs then it’s something that the customer service reps should know. There are only 2 customer service reps at Diono so it’s not like it’s a super big company and getting information out is hard. There is another woman who is big into non toxic baby items also and she thinks that Diono is not telling the truth because of what she knows about the federal laws. I tend take someone’s word for what they are telling me. I mean that’s all we can really do. However, I have always felt uneasy / questioned Diono and their no FR. If I knew about Diono when I was making my purchase I still would have picked Orbit because of Oeko-Tek. You should go to the Oeko-Tek website and look at the allowable FRs. You will get a good idea of what they are using. If you have the budget you can have a cover made and you would be totally fine. Also, I don’t know if you read the link earlier in the comments about what Orbit has to say about all of this.
I like that Clek is made in the USA but agree with Cheryll that I don’t like their fabric and I don’t like that they use bromine on the base. I can’t remember if we ever found out what they use on their foam?
I agree with you that if Orbit had a way to not use FR I think that they would. They already show that they know how to make products that naturally FR (the foot muffs).
It took me a really long time to make a decision too. After I made my purchase I felt a lot better. I still did wash my Orbit cover in soap flakes and vinegar at least 7 times though 🙂 I just had to get my son out of his infant seat because the chemicals in that seat were far worse.
Good luck 🙂
Where can I get an organic cover for a car seat?
I am going to call Diono today, I did call them once some time ago and the person who picked up had me wait for just a minute while she looks it up, then read from some paper that no, there are no FR in those 2 colors, and I asked about the foam and she said foam as well was free of all of that. Seems to me that if that is the law they would have to add some, even though there are some fabrics that are inherently fire resistant, polyester I think. Does anyone know what the Rugby and Storm fabrics are made of? And what about Orbit, what fabric do they use? I know some pajamas say fire retardant when there are no added chemicals because the fabric (polyester I believe) is not very flammable. Cotton, on the other hand, is. So I guess in theory they could make the fabric meet all the fire requirements without the need for FR. And the Diono said that their foam is such that it doesn’t need any FR. That I am not sure of, I thought all foam was flammable but I don’t know enough about foam materials so I guess there could be some that are inherently not. But then why would Orbit use ANY FR if they could find both fabric and foam that could be FR free? Makes no sense. I feel like i am back at square one and I really want to get the car seat now! Like you said, naturalbabymama, my daughter is also using one that is not the best (plus she hates her infant car seat so we can’t wait to try a convertible), when I was buying her infant seat I went by the healthykids information that rated Chicco Keyfit 30 very highly so I bought that one (in limonata which was one of the colors getting a great rating) but since also found out that they didn’t test for some very important chemicals. I now wish I researched it more and I would have probabbly gotten Orbit system from the beginning. My regret includes the stroller which I am sure has FR (Uppababy Vista, anyone knows much about those?). Thanks!
I thought I read it here, but somewhere I read that the fabric in the Diono is made of something–polyester, I think–that basically evaporates when heated too much and/or subjected to flame. So putting a flame retardant on it would be useless.
I was given this site’s name for car covers: http://www.etsy.com/shop/smallsproutsbaby?ref=search_shop_redirect Looking around, I don’t see anything that says organic, but you should probably ask, as she uses a ton of different materials.
If you search on Etsy, you’ll find other listings for organic car seat covers, too.
Thank you Laurie.
Well, I just spoke with an Orbit representative and he said their cover is also made of polyester, and they do treat both fabric and foam because it is required by National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (if I remember the name correctly). So I am even more confused. Why would Diono not be required to treat theirs as well? And I thought polyester was inherently fire resistant? About to call Diono as well. I wish i could just make a decision, but I am starting to think I will just have to make up my mind without being sure what is the least toxic option.
Also, how much of the FR, that are not chlorinated or brominated, actually get into the air? Maybe as long as I cover the seat, either option is going to be fine, as long as the chemicals are not getting into the air.
Right, my understanding all along is that FR are required by law which is why I never understood what Diono was saying. Maybe the next call should be to the dept that does the regulations to fully understand. I think getting a cover would ease your mind. Oeko-Tek is in place to keep toxic products out of textiles. So they are able to make FRs that aren’t horrible like the toxic ones being used by most other car seats.
I had the same infant seat as you Kami and the FR they use in that seat is a nerve agent. My son spent a year in that seat. It makes me feel so sad. If you have the budget get a cover for your new seat and that will ease a lot of your concerns :). I didn’t get a cover for the Orbit right away but one is being made for me now by Nollie Covers.
Thank you, I will look into Nollie Covers.
Also, Uppa is a non toxic brand so your stroller is good 🙂 The only negative about them in my mind is that they are made in China. Otherwise, they have no FR or other toxic chemicals in them.
I would recommend Nollie Covers, her link is in my blog post and I talk about the warranty when using covers in my post.
Well, I just spoke with a Diono representative and she told me very confidently that the Rugby and Storm do NOT contain any FR. She said the fabric is made in a way that it is inherently fire retardant so it didn’t require adding any FR, and that the other colors do have FR but they never used chlorinated or brominated kind on any of them. She said their memory foam also is made in such a way (it has to do with the density) that it doesn’t require any FR. So I asked her if it is safe to say that their seat in Rugby and Storm has NO FR and she said yes. I felt like she was telling the truth, she didn’t seem hesitant at all and was very confident in her answers, but it still leaves me confused as to why Orbit would not try to find fabrics that don’t require any FR. Still not sure what I will choose, but I think I will try to find a good organic cover and hopefully either one is a decent choice.
Kami, this is just a guess, but after looking at both the Orbit G2 infant car seat and the Diono in Storm and Rugby, I think the construction requires different types of fabric. The Diono fabric seemed to be stretched over a frame (no clue what the frame is made of, as I didn’t try taking the fabric cover off). It seemed to be very thin, stretchy, and malleable. The fabric used on the outside of the Orbit infant seat is very hard and stiff, as it makes up the majority of the outside edge of the seat. The inside fabric is similar in feel to the Diono, so perhaps they might be able to make that out of the same fabric, but maybe that wouldn’t qualify for Oeko Tek? Anyways, the outside fabric of the Orbit is more like a canvas. I have no idea if they could manufacture that type of fabric so it would have similar properties to the Diono, but that might be part of the issue.
Although I am concerned about safety from chemicals–after all, I think there’s much more chance a child would be harmed by them than from a car crash, considering they are definitely exposed every day, if in a car seat full of them, whereas you could easily go their whole lives without them being in a crash–the crash safety is technically the whole point of putting them in a car seat in the first place. I’m wondering how much changing the car seat cover or covering up the car seat cover would endanger my child’s safety in the car seat. I realize it voids the warranty, but what does that actually mean? I wish we had more information on that, but I’m not really sure whom I could even ask. NHTSA?
I think that Nollie Covers are approved by car seat manufactures and using her covers does not void the warranty. You should verify that with her before purchasing though. The covers of off Etsy would definitely void your warranty. I don’t know much about it but I don’t understand how different fabric would make a difference in safety. It’s not like you are change anything structurally. However, I don’t make car seats and I don’t know how that would change things. A lot of the people on Etsy say that their covers are suppose to go over the existing cover not replace it. It is up to you to decide, and to take that responsibility, to remove the cover your seat came with. Check with Nollie though 🙂
Per getting a different cover for a car seat, would that be safe and/or void the warranty? I looked at the Etsy site of a woman who makes organic fabric car seat covers, but wasn’t sure if they would in any way make the car seat less safe.
By the way, not necessarily connected to this discussion, but I did talk with Orbit about their footmuff (which goes underneath the car seat straps) and they said they’ve done crash testing with the footmuff in place, and it was safe. That was comforting to me.
Oh, and by the way, the getting the baby out of the car seat tricky part? I have a solution that doesn’t require the back-breaking carrying around of a car seat carrier. 🙂 I used an organic cotton sling with my son and just placed him in the car seat while in the carrier; when it was time to remove him, I gently lift the sling up, with him in it, and pull out. Of course this only works for the time that they are small enough to still fit into the sling, but there ya have it. Hope this helps someone. 🙂
I recently purchased two organic covers from Nollie (yikes, expensive!) and wanted to clarify – Basia (the person in charge of Nollie Covers), would not say that using their covers does not void the warranty. She did not even answer the question directly. Her exact reply was, “If you ever need to return your car seat, you simply take your NollieCover off and put the original cover back on. We have a perfect 9 year safety record.” I personally think that even if it does technically void the warranty, it probably isn’t any less safe. The covers are supposedly the exact same fit as the original carseat covers so it shouldn’t alter the safety.
Another thing I asked was where/what country did they get the fabric/organic padding from. Because we all know how reliable items from China and some other places can be, claiming things to be “organic” when they aren’t. She said that was propriety information and would only tell me that they order it through a company in Los Angeles but that she did not know what country it originated from. I didn’t love that answer, but what can you do, you know?
Finally, be prepared to wait a long time for your covers. The custom covers are supposed to take 5-6 weeks, but about 7 weeks went by without receiving either of the covers nor hearing anything from Nolliecovers about when they might be ready. I emailed Basia to inquire and it ended up taking a total of 9 weeks and multiple inquiry emails before receiving both covers. And only one of the covers was a “custom” order, the other was an organic cover that they had in stock already completely made.
My experience with Nollie Covers is that their customer service is pretty terrible – well, post-ordering anyways. Before my order was placed they were very prompt with a response to my list of questions. Afterwards, not so much.
But if it keeps toxic chemicals out of my babies’ bodies, it is worth it. Now… how do we find a CAR that isn’t filled with toxic flame retardant fabrics and padding? Maybe walking is the answer afterall…
Thanks for the update about Nollie Covers – I appreciate it! If I had to guess about the padding, a lot of organic cotton is grown in India. Some is grown in the US though. If you did the wool padding, most likely it is US or New Zealand but definitely not China. It’s funny, I was just thinking about a new car (well, new to me but used) and the idea of all the chemicals just overwhelms me. I know that our current car has chemicals too but at least it’s older so it has off-gassed longer. Wouldn’t it be nice to walk everywhere? 🙂
Yes, it would be nice to walk everywhere. I walk or bike just about everywhere we need to go, with a few exceptions. For most of the week our car remains parked in the driveway, where it should be. That’s just one of the problems with today’s society, the “design” of “communities” leads to sprawl, lack of community and an over-reliance on vehicles, and therefore, an over-reliance on those things most toxic to us. Purposefully choosing our homes so that we are choosing a walkable, pedestrian friendly, lifestyle leads to a healthier lifestyle. Then we don’t need to worry so much about the toxicity of the car stuff. 🙂
I’m not sure putting a new cover over the treated foam even works. The FR get into the dust and we inhale it, which is how it becomes a problem for us and baby. Unfortunately it is something we can’t avoid in everything. I just like reducing our exposure as much as possible.
Hi,
I’m in the market for a toddler car seat and definitely want to avoid FRs if possible. I’m leaning toward the Diono Radian, but wanted to contact them directly again about FRs. I emailed and got the below response. Sounds good and thought others might find it helpful!
Cheers,
David
“All Diono products (car seats, boosters and travel accessories) comply with US, European and Canadian regulations regarding toxic substances such as phthalates, bromides, formaldehyde, bisphenol-A (BPA), cadmium and lead. Our car seats feature a proprietary flame-retardant process which independent testing has consistently rated very well in terms of low toxicity and out-gassing, yet we are always looking for ways to improve. Our new RadianR series seats feature some covers (‘Storm’ and ‘Rugby)’ made with a new micro-mesh velour fabric that is flame retardant without requiring any added chemical treatment process.
Our seats do NOT contain BPA, Phthalates, chlorine or lead. In meeting all the North American and European standards that we do, that means our seats do NOT contain traceable amounts of those chemicals.
They do not contain any material that has been bleached and we use a non-brominated flame retardant treatment. The seats do not contain any genetically modified organic material and all are AZO-free dyes. They do not contain any formaldehyde, PVC, heavy metals, triclosan, microban, nonylphenol ethoxolates. And, are any OEKO TEX no.”
Thanks for sharing! It’s interesting that they mention the fabric on the new Radian that is made w/out FR but they don’t mention that being true of the foam too. Maybe I need to let the foam issue drop 🙂 I’m just still not 100% convinced that their foam is FR free even though they say it is. I appreciate you sending this!
naturalbabymama: I am curious to hear what you will find out as to how Diono is able to get away without using any FR in its foam and fabric. It definitely sounds fishy and i Hope they weren’t lying to me. So I decided to go with the Diono in Rugby and get a Nollie Cover. I wonder if that is as good as it gets? Since the cover replaces the foam and the fabric with wool and organic cotton, then there is no danger of any toxic chemicals, am I right? My car seat just arrived today, I haven’t ordered the cover yet, going to call today and find out the price and all. We will use it as it is for now. I did notice on the box that as one of the features Diono advertises is stain-resistant fabrics. That really annoyed me because I didn’t see it anywhere before and I didn’t think to ask before I ordered. Since we will be most likely replacing the cover, it doesn’t matter that much, but still, in case we do keep it I don’t want any stain-resistant materials. I am going to call Diono and ask if it is for all of their fabrics or if it excludes the Rugby and Storm as well.
I am very disappointed to hear that Uppababy Vista is not as non-toxic as I was excited to hear at first. Unfortunately my baby slept in their bassinet for the first 3-4 months and it bothers me to think that it had chemicals. I can’t believe I didn’t even think to check it out before I bought it. I went out of my way to get a non-toxic mattress for her crib, yet I let her sleep on a bassinet that had who knows what in it. And the nice organic mattress I bought is yet to be used, probably never, since after sleeping in the bassinet we started co-sleeping (she was a terrible sleeper and it was the best arrangement for us). Of course our mattress is not organic, so my effort and expense of getting her the best mattress didn’t really matter. We want to get a new mattress for us soon and I definitely plan on getting an organic one but that’s a whole new research and expense, so we haven’t done it yet. Anyone has any suggestions?
Kami, you said, “Since the cover replaces the foam and the fabric with wool and organic cotton, then there is no danger of any toxic chemicals, am I right?” I just wanted to ask a question for clarification: the Nollie Cover will only replace the fabric *cover* of the Diono, not the foam. Right? There still has to be padding between the cover and the frame of the car seat, or there won’t be much supporting your child from harm from the hard frame in case of a sudden stop or crash. Right? Maybe I’m missing something . . . I’m hoping to get a Diono when our baby outgrows the Orbit, so am taking notes for the future. Thanks!
When I talked with Diono they told me that you don’t have to use the foam – that it can be taken out. It’s just for comfort. They said it does not affect safety but don’t rely on me for that – definitely check with them again on that. I would have to go back to Nollie’s site but I think she can make padding?
I don’t think there is any more foam other than what is part of the cover, which is why I thought the whole thing would get replaced (I read on the Nollie Covers website they replace both). I guess I am not sure where else there would be any foam, I need to check the seat. But like I said in my other post, unfortunately the Nollie Covers are not available for Diono so hopefully the original cover by Diono is non-toxic as they claim.
I didn’t peel back the cover on the Diono, Kami, but I did peel it back on the Orbit. There’s definitely foam between the cover and the seat frame in the Orbit. On the Diono, the seat has metal and plastic in it (both of them hard and bulky), and the cover is very, very thin. I can’t imagine there’d be any way to keep your kid from getting bruised every time he/she sat in it if there weren’t some foam, plus in a crash, there’d be little keeping your kid from getting hurt by being pushed against the hard backing. What NaturalBabyMama said, about taking the foam out, indicates there is some between the cover and back. What I wonder is how the seat could possibly be safe, even for everyday use, without the foam? I’d think every little bump in the road would be uncomfortable without padding. Confused here . . .
Your situation sounds exactly like mine! My son slept in an arms reach co-sleeper that had FR for the first 5 or 6 months. So annoying! I didn’t know then. Then he moved to our bed because it was the best arrangement for us. At some point during this time, before he was in our bed, we bought an organic crib mattress that I’m sure he has napped on a handful of times – waste of our money! We did end up buying a new mattress for us mainly because we had a queen and it was a tight fit for all of us. We went up to a king and love it… but what I love most is the non-toxic mattress we purchased. I love, love Soaring Heart http://soaringheart.com/. They make such a good quality product using the best materials available. Plus they are really nice and knowledgeable.
That is really interesting about the Diono stain resistant fabric. I hate stain resistant fabrics. So they claim to not be using any chemicals for FR but are for stain resistance? Yes, adding a cover is the best you are going to get. They aren’t cheap but you’ll have the seat for a while so you will get your money out of it.
So are you talking about the Uppa Vista stroller or something else from them?
Thank you for the tip, I will look into the mattresses. Did you get cotton, wool or latex?
I was talking about the stroller, it came with a bassinet too. You can purchase a stand for it and use in the bedroom so we used it for sleeping the first few months.
I got a latex mattress which is then wrapped in a thin layer of wool then organic cotton. I tested out some organic cotton mattresses then tried the latex one and it was so much more comfortable for me. You can get an additional topper too – wool or latex to make it even cushier. We did latex.
I’m pretty sure I remember reading that the bassinet did not have any FR. I know their stroller doesn’t so there would be no reason for them to add FR to the bassinet.
This post/thread is so very helpful to me. Like naturalbabymama, I didn’t know about car seats containing toxic materials when I had my first child 18 months ago. When he was first born, I began to research EVERYTHING that went in, on, or near him and was surprised by how many dangerous chemicals there are in everyday products. My child also had a Chicco Keyfit 30 and once I realized car seats contain toxic chemicals, I contacted Chicco many times to find out what was on my son’s seat. They were not forthcoming with information, did not return my calls, or just sent me form emails which didn’t answer my questions. So, that essentially gave me my answer. Fortunately, I had heard of Orbit when it came time for us to get a convertible seat. It’s been in my car for a while now and I LOVE it. At the present time, we are in the market for a second seat for my husband’s vehicle. I read about Britax’s commitment to phase out BFRs, so I decided it was probably safe to order one as long as it was manufactured in 2013 given that was their phase out date. I ordered it from amazon yesterday. But, after reading this entire post, I’ve cancelled my order and ordered a Radian. I’d LOVE another Orbit, but since it’s our second seat that doesn’t get used nearly as often, I decided to go with something not as pricey, though I certainly want the second seat to not only be safe crash-wise, but also health-wise. I know the thinking right now is that the Radian’s foam isn’t treated, but I’m going to check this thread often to see if you get different information. I can’t tell you how much I appreciate you and all of the other parents who are doing this important research for those of us who care so much about this topic. With all of us asking these questions and raising these concerns, hopefully the car seat manufacturers will take notice and make healthy changes.
I’m so glad you found this and cancelled your Britax order! It’s driving me nuts that they are playing up that they are phasing out BFRs. They are just replacing them with a different toxic FR. They are making it sound like they are phasing out FR all together – super misleading. I’m glad you purchased the Radian. I think I / we just need to believe what they told use regarding the foam.
If you want to know what Chicco uses google phosphate ester. It makes me sad to think about it being a nerve agent. I am glad that we know now and are making better choices!
Love your post and all the interaction that follows! I wish everyone was more aware of toxins in baby items maybe then the manufacturers would be quicker to react. I just found a Diono Radian RXT in Rugby for almost half price for all the Canadians out there: http://wp.me/p28cLd-bN . Just thought I would share since it is a such a pricey seat! Keep up the great posts:)
Hi!
I have read the majority of these posts until I got to your statement about the Uppa Baby being a nontoxic brand. Does that mean they don’t use FR? I have the 2012 UppaBaby Vista. Still leaves me undecided for a car seat. Can I just buy the orbit as a car seat or should I buy the Diono? Thanks so much for posting, really wish ai found all if this stuff out sooner. Everyone should seriously get this info when they find out they are pregnant! Have been using the Chico car seat since she was born and she is almost 6 months :(.
Hi! I’m glad that you found my blog! So, Uppa doesn’t use FR on their strollers but now they have a car seat and they do use it on that. So if you have the Vista then you don’t have to worry about having FR in your stroller.
I feel you on the car seat, my son was in the Chicco until he was almost a year. So you can just buy the Orbit without the base. I like that the Orbit is Oeko-Tek certified since both car seats come from China I feel like it’s an extra measure of protection. Diono claims to not use any FR. Orbit uses Oeko-Tek certified non-toxic FR. So really I would say from a chemical standpoint Diono seems better if what they are saying about the foam is really true. That being said often things from China come into the USA and are found with high levels of lead… so the Oeko-Tek certification makes me feel better about that. The bottom line is either of those two are better than the Chicco so whatever you feel most comfortable with would be the best. At this point I would look at the convertible car seat and maybe just get an organic cover for the infant seat until you are ready to move her?
I agree, everyone should get this info when they are pregnant. It’s crazy that things are so toxic for babies and most people don’t even know. The amount of research I did when my son was born to even this information was enormous. It shouldn’t be this hard but sadly it is. Hopefully some legislation will change things in the future!
The uppababy bassinet does have FR in the foam. “Flame retardants are used on the bassinet liner and pad. It is also used on the fabric parts of the Mesa.” Email from the company.
Good to know!! Thank you for sharing. That is really sad. My son spent 5 months sleeping the Arms Reach Co-Sleeper with FRs. It makes me feel so horrible. I would have never thought that they put FRs in portable sleepers. I’m going to update my blog to reflect that. I was mainly focused on the stroller component when I reached out to them not the bassinet. Thanks again!
Finding a safe bassinet (or item that’s small enough to put by the bed in our room) has been the HARDEST thing I’ve had to do in this pregnancy. There’s so little information out there, and I have felt foiled at every turn when I’ve thought I found something, only to figure out it has another unsafe component or chemical treatment. In the end, we’ve settled on a moses basket that I researched (it’s free from all treatments during the growing of the materials and after the basket is created) with organic cotton and wool bedding. We’re going to put it on a solid wood stand (also free from any paint, stain, or sealer that has dangerous chemicals) that rocks. It took me nearly 5 months of research, phone calls, and such to figure this out. SO frustrating!
That is so awesome! That is exactly what I would do if I was pregnant knowing what I know now. Do you mind sharing where you bought each piece? I would love to include it on the blog!
Also, what about Bugaboo Bee? Does that have flame retardants?
It’s so hard when you look around and realize so many products do. What about rugs? Are there any that you recommend? What about clothing? Does all sleep ware -even organic- have FR’s in them?
For Bugaboo I don’t believe they have FR but I think that they use PVC which is toxic. I’ll get in touch with them and see what I find out.
Rugs can be toxic for sure. The best is untreated, organic wool with a natural backing like jute or something similar. We have hardwoods and only 2 rugs in our house. It’s been on my list of things too do. Both rugs are older so I feel like hopefully they have off gassed! I have google searched for organic wool rugs and have a found a few places but the prices were WAY cheaper than I expected so it left me wondering. Of course I found some really expensive ones way out of my budget too. If I ever find a company I like I will do a post on it.
So I only buy organic, GOTS certified clothing for my son. Occasionally, I will buy Oeko-Tek certified PJ’s for him (organic) from Hanna Andersson. The GOTS certified does not allow FR or formaldehyde, which is in a lot of clothing. It also doesn’t allow for AZO dyes or heavy metal. Oeko-Tek does allow for certain “non-toxic” FR. So, I buy PJ’s from Under the Nile, Sage Creek Organics (get on their newsletter to get their sales which happen all the time), and occasionally Hanna Anderrson (which is FR free as well). I buy clothes from Kate Quinn, Under the Nile, Sage Creek, & Kite Kids (on Zulily) all of which are GOTS certified. I will do a blog post soon – I keep promising but I really will :). I have a handful of other companies I will post too.
Also, for PJ’s there will be a yellow tag attached to them that says that the PJs have to be worn snug fitting because they do not contain FRs. Look for that tag and you know that they don’t contain FR. If it doesn’t have that tag then it has FRs.
FYI, I just saw that Under the Nile sells rugs made from the scraps of their clothes… http://www.underthenile.com/underthenile/category.php
They aren’t very stylish (like for a living room) but would be super cute in a baby’s room.
Yes! I have 1 rug and 1 play rug/mat from them. I love them. They are thick and hold up really well. We actually have the smaller play rug in our entry way now to wipe our feet off on 🙂
No, organic can not have chemical flame retardants applied. So it’s always safest to stick to organic. That includes sofas, carpets, clothing, etc. Even if it says natural, it can still have FR applied, I believe.
Organic can actually have flame retardants applied – sadly. If it’s organic GOTS certified it can’t have FR. If it’s Oeko-Tek certified certain approved FR can be used which are suppose to be less toxic / safer. Most I believe are saline based. You can look at Oeko-Tek’s site to see which ones are approved. The other tricky thing is that a fabric can be certified and free of FR but then the rest of the item isn’t. I came across this with the Nuna Leaf swing. The fabric is organic and free of FR but that was the only piece certified and via email they told me they use FR on the form. It’s such a complicated, tricky environment we are in. Once you get it figured out though you learn which companies you can trust and it makes buying things much easier!
Oh, and natural basically means nothing and most definitely can (and probably does) contain some harmful ingredient (including FR).
Just wondering if there is anything to look for when buying organic skin care etc.. For certification …as gotts is for clothing and fabrics
Thanks
I don’t know of a certification, but you can look cosmetics and other toiletries up on EWG’s Skin Deep registry. It’s awesome! http://www.ewg.org/skindeep/
Yes, I love the skin deep database! That is the best way to find out if your products are safe. I love Earth Mama Angel Baby products and they have a post on their website that I think are worth reading about ingredients to avoid http://www.earthmamaangelbaby.com/mama-resources/expert-panel/diba-tillery-rn-bsn/protecting-our-babies-from-toxic-chemicals
Those rugs are awesome! Thanks for sharing! I have some blankets from them and they are so soft.
Other rugs I’ve used are cotton braided rugs from Capel. They’re really pretty and soft, come in tons of shapes, colors, and sizes, have NO FRs, and are made in the USA. You can find them sold online in several places.
Thank you SO much for the reply. TRULY love your blog and what you are doing.
I have a few more questions- do you know or can you provide the chemicals that are so bad and toxic in the flame retardants so I know what to look for/ask? I can’t believe EWG is so misleading. It would be good to know!
Also, are there any groups that are trying to change this law? I feel like something should be done but I don’t know who to contact about it. It’s worth my time to try to get this stuff outlawed!
And one more question, I know you said the EU won’t ship products here. But I will eb going there soon. Do you know of any car sats or other products I should buy while I am there that are better and not so toxic? Thank you again for this blog. I have shared it with all of my friends!
Thank you – I glad you love it and have found it so helpful! That is why I started blogging. I figured I couldn’t be the only one who cared and it was so hard to find information that I thought I should share what I found.
I would just ask what flame retardants they use. Any / all are bad. You can google what they tell you they use to find more information… but again they are all bad so if they say yes we do that is all the information I would need. For almost all products (except possibly a car seat) you can find without FRs.
EWG isn’t necessarily misleading it’s just that they are a small group and only test for a few things. They can’t test for every FR out there. So while it’s great that EWG is doing what they are doing it just isn’t the full picture.
A lot of products that contain FR here don’t there. It’s not to say that all don’t. If there is something specific that you need I would reach out to the EU contacts for each company and ask them if they use FR, if their products are BPA, Phthalate, and lead free. I don’t think you necessarily need to stock up unless there is something you really need. Most things can be found here you just have to shop differently that you previously had. I never just pick up toys at a store anymore. I have a few local stores I buy from that focus on being eco friendly, etc but I buy most things online though. Also at this age my son has outgrown most baby stuff and it’s just about being outside and toys inside. I just know which companies are safe and I just continue to buy from them 🙂
Also here is a petition to change legislation on car seats – share it with everyone you know! It still needs a lot of signatures http://www.change.org/petitions/chicco-graco-britax-peg-perego-evenflo-stop-the-toxic-flame-retardant-treadmill-use-truly-non-toxic-options
I’m so grateful for all the research you’ve done. This is beyond helpful as I prepare to transition my 8-month-old son from his Chicco Key Fit to a convertible car seat. I’m just curious whether you ever got any good information on the Maxi-Cosi Pria 70? I’ve read non-confirmed speculation that it is much lower in chemical toxicity than other leading brands (if not completely free of them). And, given that it’s among the most popular seats in Europe, I’m wondering if it complies with the stricter EU regulations on flame retardants. Thanks!
I don’t have any info on them. I doubt they are completely free of them as none are. I think that any dose of FR is not good. Oeko-Tek is the only standard I’m sticking with now after all the Diono non-sense. So I would only recommend Orbit for a car seat from a non-toxic stand point. So, even though there are stricter / different regulations in Europe they have to have the seat comply with the US laws. So they can use different chemicals here than they do there. It’s really too bad but the only way to get the European version of their car seat would be to buy it there.
Hi. Thanks for all the research you have shared. I am adamantly opposed to FR in general on the basis of them being ineffective and hazardous. I’m fully on board. However the thought occurred to me that the entire car is still full of FR. Is it worth it to buy a FR-free seat when the rest of the car is contaminated? If this is the means by which the Orbit tested positive, wouldn’t the same happen in our cars? I’m wondering if in a world of finite resources, if it would be money better spent on decreasing the FR load in my house by changing out some furniture. Let me know what you think. I may have missed something. Thank you.
Hi there! Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. I had some technology free days this past week 🙂 You are totally right, cars are loaded with FRs and other toxins. I always have thought you should start with the places your child spends the most time then start cleaning up those spaces. I do think that our culture has children spend a lot of time in car seats. I mean I have sat in my car for countless hours while my son was napping. We have strollers that we can just pick up the infant seats and move them from car to stroller then to house etc without ever holding the baby! Babies can spend a lot of time in their car seats. I think with the direct skin contact having FR free makes sense. As for the car itself, opening the door or windows, especially during hot weather, before getting in can help with the toxins in the car. Personally, I did exactly what you said, I changed our bedding (mattress and purchased organic sheets), then I changed our couch, I got rid of any toxic toys or mats, then I replaced his car seat. Part of his car seat being last was that it took me months to pull the trigger. The couch was something that I just had to do. I felt funny sitting on my toxic couch researching non-toxic toys 🙂 If you have to pick and choose what you are going to make non-toxic then most definitely change where the most exposure happens.
Could you please recommend where you purchased a couch without FR? It has been my understanding that as of now there is none available for purchase because of the law. It bothers me quite a bit that our house if full of FR, couch being one of them, and I can’t wait to replace it with a better alternative. If I remember correctly, a law should come into effect this year that will allow manufacturers to make FR free couches but it isn’t until later this year (I could be wrong but I believe that is what I read). I need to look into it further but any advice of couches currently available would be appreciated.
I had one made for me by a local furniture maker. Do you live in a big city? This person happens to make eco furniture but the other option is to supply the person with all the material for them to make it. It is an undertaking but it was worth it to me. There are a few companies out there making furniture that doesn’t use FR but uses natural materials that are flame resistant. Let me dig around and pull up those companies to get to you.
I came across this blog post today while looking for an FR-free glider. Seems to have some good options for furniture, Kami: http://www.healthyhappytot.com/flame-retardant-free-gliders-rockers-sofas/
Yes, those are great options. I used Ecobalanza. Elka was another that I looked into. I haven’t heard of the other two companies but I personally wouldn’t purchase a soybean foam couch mainly because it probably is made from GMO soybean and I don’t want to be sitting on that when there are other options available 🙂 I’ll pull up the other couple of companies I came across too. Thanks for sharing Laurie!
To those asking about FR free sofas, there are several companies right now making organic sofas, or at least natural. If you go organic they don’t have any chemicals; if you go with wool or leather, they don’t need FR. One of the companies I’ve looked into is Eco-terric. There are several more in California alone. Google organic sofas, they’re out there. 🙂
I received an email today that several of you may be interested in, especially those of you who already have the orbit:
Subject: Recall notice from NHTSA’s Office of Defects Investigation
You are receiving this message because you have requested to be notified if there is a safety recall regarding Child Restraint Systems from NHTSA’s Office of Defects Investigation.
NHTSA Campaign ID Number: 13C003
Synopsis:
Orbit Baby, Inc. (Orbit) is recalling certain G2 Car Seat Bases, Model No. ORB822000, manufactured from March 20, 2013, through July 20, 2013, with batch numbers A0840, A0860, or A0880. The StrongArm Knob component of the Orbit Baby G2 Car Seat Base intended to secure the seat’s base, may become detached or spin. If the seat base is not properly secured, a child may be at an increased risk of injury in the event of a crash. Registered owners will be notified and Orbit will provide a free remedy kit along with repair instructions to them or any owner that notifies Orbit of the need for a kit. The recall is expected to begin during November 2013. Owners may contact Orbit Baby Customer Service at 1-877-672-2229.
For more information for this particular recall, please go to 13C003.
Thank you,
Recalls Subscription Team
Office of Defects Investigation (ODI)
National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA)
U.S. Department of Transportation (DOT)
Thank you for sharing this!!
You’re welcome!
Regards, Cheryll Please sign, thank you!http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/mandatory-child-sensor-alert-systems-for-all-new-vehilces http://apps.facebook.com/petitions/1/mandatory-child-sensor-alert-systems-for-all-new-vehilces/ forgetmenotusa.com http://www.babyalert.info/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1 http://www.babysafetyline.com/2.html KidsandCars.org http://www.igive.com/forgetmenotusa (donate while shopping name brands)
September is Childhood Cancer Awareness Month. Wear gold, shave your head, donate! DO SOMETHING! For these kids still fighting and those who have crossed over to Heaven.
Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2013 05:07:53 +0000 To: [email protected]
We bought our Orbit system and spare base just before the recall. All you have to do is register (or have registered) your bases (that’s the only part that’s affected by the recall), and they will automatically send out a kit to fix the problem. I called to find out how long it might take, as we need to get our bases installed soon. The customer service rep was very kind and professional. She said that the kits are currently being shipped out, and we should get ours in 2-3 weeks (we just registered a week ago). She also said that very few bases are having trouble with the knob, but they are issuing this recall and giving kits to everyone as a precaution.
Thank you all for the suggestions on FR free sofas. I am looking into Ecobalanza now and I like them! I am going to call them tomorrow for prices, which I am sure will be a whole lot more than I want to spend on a sofa but what can you do, everything that is non-toxic is in the high price range.
I don’t know if this has already been discussed but CA just loosened the rule on flammability: goes into effect in 2014, manufacturers must comply by 2015:
http://users.focalbeam.com/fs/distribution:wl/ze7pzanwmhlzgt/11vs51dudeldybj/daid/.preview
I think that’s a really valid point, Kathie! However, it depends on the situation a person is in. My car is over 10 years old, so although it certainly may have some lingering FR fumes, it’s likely to be much, much less than a brand new car seat.
And in other situations, like with our mattress, which we bought new two years ago and can’t afford to replace at this time, we tried to do our best to mitigate how much products with harmful chemicals would come into direct contact with our baby. So his/her bassinet and crib (and all mattresses, pads, and bedding) are safe, though our own mattress is not. It’s not a perfect solution, but with limited resources, we had to try to prioritize what would be most harmful to our child, in our opinion.
Plus, like you said, with the changes in CA’s law about flame retardants, we should see some better products become available as time goes on, especially in terms of furniture. Hopefully, as those become available, we’ll be better able to afford changing out more of our house to make it full of less chemicals. 🙂
Im just finding out about these chemicals and is very depressing knowing I’ve been using a britax. My boy needs a booster seat i checked orbit but they don’t seem to make one any ideas on which is the least toxic?
I know, it is depressing once you realize all the chemicals that you have been using. I had a hard time with that. You didn’t know so you can’t dwell on it too much (even though I totally did dwell!) I haven’t researched it but I have a reader who was trying to find a booster. She was looking at Clek and was going to replace the fabric. I can’t remember what FR was use though. I would give Clek a call and see what they tell you about the FR. I don’t like their stain resistant fabric so I would definitely cover their fabric with something else.
Watch HBO tonight for Toxic Hot Seat- a documentary exposing flame retardants:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/24/opinion/sunday/kristof-danger-lurks-in-that-mickey-mouse-couch.html
I absolutely LOVE all of the research and information you’ve provided on your site.
Great work!
We have decided on the Foonf ourselves by evaluating all the environmental health factors.
You’ve helped us so much-thank you!
I think it is vitally important to mention that ANY after-market products are 100% NOT safe to use with child safety restraints.
Carseats are not tested with these products therefore there is no way to know if the seat will perform correctly in a crash (or even fender-bender).
No: carseat covers (that go between child and seat), strap covers, seat protectors—nothing that did not come with the seat.
The Facebook group: Carseats For the Littles is amazing and has taught me so much about safety. I recommend it to anyone who wants to know more about carseat safety.
Thank you again!
Your point about after-market products is a really important one. However, I just wanted to note that I checked with Orbit to make sure that they’ve done crash and safety tests of their infant car seat with the footmuff (which goes under the straps and the baby) installed, and they have. It’s incredibly expensive compared with other options, but we felt it was a justified expense, since we could be sure we weren’t compromising our baby’s safety in a crash by using it.
A follower of this blog sent me this about Diono. I think the information she found out was interesting and worth sharing:
I spoke with four different people at Diono: 2 CS reps, 1 CS supervisor, and lastly their Global Safety Advocate, Allana Pinkerton. Over and over (and believe me, I PUSHED! And reiterated, and restated, and questioned…) they assured me that the rugby & storm are inherently flame retardant fabrics, and that all the foam in their seats is inherently FR, so these two seats have NO chemical FRs. I questioned why other people had been told that there was a proprietary blend and it was explained that that was a miscommunication, and referred to the carseats in the other fabrics (NOT rugby & storm). In total I probably spent at least an hour on the phone talking through all this.
So, I am sure that some people will still not believe it or will just feel uneasy about the whole thing. I totally understand and am not writing to defend Diono or anything like that. I just know that I was freaking out a bit after thinking that I unknowingly chose a carseat full of chemical FRs, and I wanted to share my story because it has helped ease my mind a bit.
so i just read (nearly) every comment here, and i don’t want to come off as a rambler and a hater, but….. i LOVE how conscientious people have become. your children – every single person who has read this post, commented on it, thought about this – are being raised by parents with incredible values and a thoughtfulness that is incomparable. and several people pointed out so correctly that the government should be doing a better job for us, we shouldn’t have to be doing all of this research to purchase a non-toxic (or less toxic) carseat for our babes. i do think our government does a good job in regulating car seats in terms of making sure the recommendations keep our babes safe in a crash. but certainly not so much in terms of chemicals – but that’s corporate lobbying for you. so here’s one point, and i know this sounds like i’m saying the search for a non toxic car seat is futile given the circumstances – but i guess that is what i’m saying. your car is FILLED with flame retardant foam. you know that the “new car smell” is just the smell of chemicals off gassing. it’s disgusting. and it is horrifying to imagine placing our tiny children in those same chemicals in their car seats. but the reality is, most of us don’t spend a lot of time in our cars. even a kid with a long commute to daycare or school, or a short commute in bad traffic, is unlikely to spend more than an hour in a stretch in their car seat. those long trips to visit family or travel are much less common. most important to me is making sure the seats are as low in lead or lead free as possible, because of touching and putting hands in mouth. but cocooning your baby in a less toxic shell inside a rather toxic box is, i don’t know, maybe not worth $400+? i feel like orbit, clek, diono – they are super super expensive and i wonder if they’re preying on our fears. so maybe not your infant car seat, but certainly there’s no harm in getting a hand me down booster from a trusted friend if it’s not in visibly bad condition. no new manufacture, no use of raw materials and petrochemicals to make it. and on that point, why does everyone use an infant bucket seat, and then a convertible seat, and then a booster? the only part of these cleks and orbits that hooks me, beside their efforts to use less toxic chemicals, is the idea that it’s just one seat, for the duration of their time in a seat. i’m not adding to the landfills to keep them in a seat i can carry them around in like a purse for a few months, that no one wants to buy used. we bought the combi coccorro for our twin girls, came home from the hospital in them, and we’re still using them at age 3.5. we carried our babies in our arms, our moby wraps, and our soft carriers. when you really start to think about it, global warming should trump all of your fears about toxic car seats. maybe look for a less toxic, or even better, a used seat, and donate some of that money you would have spent on a $400+ car seat to 350.org, who might be the most important people on the earth for our kids. maybe just do the best you can, accepting nothing is perfect, advocate for change at a government level, but don’t buy a new, expensive car seat when another choice could actually be more environmentally friendly and in the long run, probably isn’t hurting your kid. there are SO many environments you can’t control – eventually our kids will be in school, they’ll be at friends houses, they’ll be on playgrounds and play spaces and it’s okay. we’re all doing an AMAZING job, just to be aware of this stuff. but we shouldn’t worry, and freak out, and STRESS about it! you, and your commenters, are INCREDIBLE MAMAS AND PAPAS! you are lights in your childrens’ worlds. you are doing such a great job! be proud of yourselves for being aware and caring, but the level of anxiety here about car seats might be too much. these seats are really expensive, and most of us aren’t rich. and you can do every last thing in the world and something bad and unexpected could happen to your kid. stop researching on the internet (and i’m going to take my own advice here) and go snuggle your babes. and worry about global warming. that’s the real problem.
I’m confused. You are worried about chemicals but promote the completely unsafe option of putting a cover not provided by the manufacturer on the car seat? That’s a huge safety no-no.
Please note that the Orbit only RFs to 35lbs. Most other seats RF to 40lb, the radian, Peg, and foonf to 45lb+
Yes, I am worried about chemicals but I do note that it voids your warranty on your car seat if you replace your cover. There are comments in this blog about people stating to not replace your cover. Each parent has a choice to make. A lot of people put the organic cover over their existing cover, some people choose to replace, and some keep their covers. Thanks for your comment.
I’m confused, it’s a cover. They say to not replace it because it hasn’t been tested but that’s just their way of protecting themselves. It doesn’t mean the child won’t be safe because a cover is slipped over it. And I would be a lot more worried about the definite dangers of the toxic chemicals they are sitting in. But as NBM states, each parent has to decide that for themselves I suppose.
I agree with you completely! My thoughts exactly.
I don’t understand how a different cover makes the seat less safe? The child is still strapped in the same way and the seat doesn’t lose its function just because you replace a piece of fabric covering it. And yes, some parents are more worried about the daily exposure to toxic chemicals and don’t believe replacing the cover makes the seat any less safe!
Do you know anything about the Nuna Pipa. It says it Oeko-tex certified and it has some really nice safety features. I need to replace my daughter’s infant seat and I’d love to get your opinion. If you don’t know anything about it, can you tell me what questions to ask when I call? Thanks!
I think somewhere in the comments there is some info on the Nuna. What I remember is that the fabric is Oeko-Tek but the foam isn’t (and maybe the base). They use FR for sure. I know that they do in their swing and I also called about the car seat and they told me that they did. I’m almost 100% it is just the fabric that is Oeko-Tek. If you want to call and ask more info I would ask them what part is Oeko-Tek and what FR they use in the foam, base or any other part of the seat. It’s too bad that they aren’t 100% Oeko-Tek – actually that would be a good question to ask them! Why aren’t they. Good luck!
Would you mind commenting on how you are liking your Orbit convertible seat? It has a lot of negative reviews about straps constantly twisting, chest clip sagging, rattling noises from the base, being so upright that the baby’s chin drops to their chest when sleep, the straps get tangled in the back and are very hard to get out. A lot of people really seem to hate it….can you comment on the pros and cons other than the non-toxic factor. This makes it worth it, but for that much $ I want to know what I’m getting into. Thanks! I LOVE your blog! Full of great info – already read the whole thing!
Hi! Thanks so much. I glad you love the blog. I have so much more to blog about but little time 🙂
Great question – I really like the Orbit. I have nothing to complain about at all. I’ve never had the chest clip sag, ever! I’m a big freak about making sure he is in there all snug and the chest strap being in the correct position. I have never taken him out and had it be in a different position. I’ve never noticed if the straps twist so I guess that means that they don’t 🙂 I think once or twice in the past year once of the plastic clips twisted, and I twisted it back but it was no big deal at all. I read a lot about it not reclining too and would really love to know why that it such a big deal. I never had a seat that reclined so I don’t know any different. A few times he has fallen asleep and his head has fallen forward. I just reach back and pull it back into the seat. I think he fell asleep not having his head back all the way though. I didn’t start using the convertible seat until he was about a year though. I don’t know how it would be with a younger child. Either way no matter what seat I had I would have a mirror back there to keep an eye on them. I could see that reclining might be more comfy for him when he is napping but it really is no big deal to me or him. All I have is positives about it! Plus if you get the base having it turn to get them in is AMAZING! So many people are jealous of that feature. It makes securing them into the seat so much easier. The only downside is that it is a big seat compared to other seats I have seen. If you use the base it is tall but again I don’t have an issue with it at all. I really love it.
Thanks for all the great info!!!
I have just finished reading all these post.. Thanks for all the great info. Sadly I am just learning about all these toxins and like many of you it makes me so mad to know that my daughter has been exposed to this. She is 3 and I so want to turn back time but I can’t so I have started making neccessary changes. Changing my car seat is one of my first steps.. but I am still a little confused. Is the Doino good or not? I am canadian so the orbit is not an option for me.
Also I inspect and install car seats so just to comment on the organic covers… Please make sure when replacing recovering an existing one that there is absolutely no iterference with the straps..ex. making them slacker.. at the wrong level for your child etc.. A good fitting cover should be fine but just make sure. I agree 100% with limiting/reducing exposure to all those horrible chemicals.. but make sure the car seat is still safe.
I think Diono is not perfect mainly because they haven’t been consistent with their answers. I think they there is a possibility that they use FR. If you can’t get the Orbit then Diono is probably the next best. I really don’t like that it is made in China and not certified – just because you never know about the products coming out of China. However, if I were you it would probably be the one I would go for. Can you get the Clek in Canada?
Diono claims radian rxt in storm and rugby colors do not need flame retardants because of memory foam and micro mesh velour fabric. They also state this in their chemical statement on their website. I emailed and called them to confirm this. I hope this is true.
Please see a recent comment from Johnon’s mom that states she was told that the foam in the cover does contain FR.
Hi everyone,
This is the response I just got from Britax when inquired about using fire retardants and their promise to phase it out in 2013. I post it here for you:
“Last year we announced we would be revising our internal chemical compliance specifications. These revised specifications require all Britax suppliers to reduce and/or where possible, eliminate the use of all chemicals containing bromine or chlorine from all components used in our car seats and all other products – while still ensuring their ability to pass federal government standards for flammability. We set a target for our suppliers to be compliant to this new standard by the end of 2012.
We are pleased to report successful progress. Our suppliers have worked very diligently toward meeting these more stringent chemical compliance specifications and have successfully reduced and/or eliminated the use of all chemicals containing bromine and chlorine in all components. Britax remains committed to working closely with our suppliers to ensure continued leadership in the area of chemical compliance specifications.
In Britax’s ongoing continuous improvement efforts, we have been phasing in new components as quickly as our suppliers have been able to comply. This approach has and will continue to ensure Britax products fulfill our pledge in providing parents and children with the best and safest child mobility products.”
I personally do not believe them much. Let me know whet you think.
Hi,
I am so frustrated with trying to find a car seat as well. I too emailed Britax and got the same response as the one you received which I thought was very general and did not answer each of my questions specifically. I emailed them back saying this and requested that they respond to each question I asked individually and provide detailed info on the types of chemicals used. I am yet to get a response. In the meantime Diono answered my questions specifically and it seems that this is the best seat out there (offered in Canada) so far. To summarize the info I got from them… the rugby and storm covers are not treated with flame retardants… however the foam inside the covers is.This can be removed without impacting safety but will void the warrenty. The covers are not OEKO-TEK certified.
The memory foam used in other areas of the seat are not treated with flame retardant chemicals. This was the response regarding other chemicals.
Our seats do NOT contain BPA, Phthalates, chlorine or lead. In meeting all the North American and European standards that we do, that means our seats do NOT contain traceable amounts of those chemicals.
Composition of car seats:
93% Polypropylene (impact grade, co-polymer)
5% EPS (Expanded polystyrene)
2% Aluminum
They also stated this: Please keep in mind that we as a company have always made low out-gassing a high priority in the manufacturing of the Radian’s. She stressed a few times that it rated low on chemicals and outgassing.
So although it is not completely chemical free … It seems better (if we trust their word) then the others so far. Maybe you can provide some imput naturalbabymama?
I’m still waiting response from Peg-Perago and another response from Britax.
Janice
Thanks for all this great info! If one did take the foam out of the Diono, how would one successfully replace it? What materials would most closely resemble the foam? Normally I wouldn’t care, but for impact safety, I’d think it’d be very important to match the density.
I don’t think I would try and replace the foam. Are you talking about the foam in the cover? One of the times I called Diono the person I spoke to said that it could be removed and didn’t change the safety. HOWEVER, I would call Diono yourself and find out if that is actually true since everybody seems to be getting different answers from them about things.
You can buy natural latex foam. Not sure where in your area, but you can check online. Make sure it’s natural latex though, some latex isn’t and has chemicals as well.
Do you think Latex foam would have the same density and thickness as the foam Diono is using? Is the foam attached to the cover itself or underneath it and loose? I’ve checked out the Diono Rugby, but didn’t try removing the cover.
My understanding is that the foam that has been treated is sewn into the seat cover. She said if it is removed it do not impact safety. However if you plan on replacing the foam I would contact them to be sure it will not impact safety as well. The other foams in the seat has not been treated.
Oh my gosh, the Diono employees need to all get together and get on the same page! Holy cow they are frustrating. They have given out every variation of answer possible. I hadn’t heard that the foam inside the cover is treated with FR. That’s new info! Did you get it in writing? If so can you send it to me?
I just responded about Britax but I don’t recommend them at all from a toxicity standpoint. They are just replacing two of the most toxic chemicals out there (which they shouldn’t have been using the first place) with other toxic chemicals.
Thanks for sharing this, Janice. It is like a really bad joke except it’s NOT. FUNNY. As I’ve shared with naturalbabymama in the past, I spent an absurd amount of time researching this and specifically the Diono, and that is ultimately the carseat we bought for our daughter (this past August). I spoke with multiple customer service reps, a supervisor and their freakin’ chief safety officer Alana Pinkerton for a long time – while I am not impressed with the differing information and apparent confusion at that company, I was pleased that a woman this high up in the company was willing to talk to me and even gave me her cell phone number to reach her – I’m thinking I should post it here so everyone can call her and talk to her directly :). Everyone assured me that the foam they use is not treated with FRs, neither by Diono nor the manufacturer, because the type of foam it is – specifically related to density, I believe – makes it inherently flame resistant (at least enough to pass the federal tests). I pushed on all of this so hard (Why wouldn’t other companies use this too then? And why wouldn’t they want to market this amazing characteristic? And did they plan to do third-party testing?) and Ms. Pinkerton unequivocally stated that the storm & rugby carseats are not treated with any chemical FRs whatsoever (foam or fabric). This was after there were some similar confusing stories on another natural baby/parenting site, so I had re-contacted them even though at that point I already had the carseat, and I questioned the information I was given originally, asked why there was so much misinformation floating around, and reiterated all of my concerns and re-asked all of my questions.
So the fact that there are differing answers from Diono yet again is really, REALLY disappointing. I want to believe that the Diono is actually the best option on the market because (according to my conversations with them) it is free of chemical FRs altogether, but now I feel – yet again – like maybe I really cannot trust them. Can we trust anyone out there?!?!
Janice – who did you speak with you gave you this information about the foam? I am not doubting you at all, of course; I am just curious where the information came from on their end. I’m also wondering (though pointlessly, I fear) if there could be differences between the foam and therefore FRs in Canada versus the USA – I live in the US but believe from your post that you are in CA?
I can’t believe Diono keeps giving these different answers to people. I wish we could finally resolve this and know for sure of Diono does or does not use FR on their seat. You said there are FR in the foam of the cover but not the memory foam in other areas of the seat. I am not sure what other foam is in there besides inside the cover? I don’t see foam in anything but the cover, the seat is made of the frame and then the cover with the foam and fabric. What am I missing? Thanks!
I agree, I wish they would just give one straight answer. It’s frustrating to say the least!
I haven’t actually seen the Diono in person. I believe the Orbit has foam behind the seat. I’ll check again tomorrow but I swear I remember seeing foam back there 🙂
My understanding is there is foam under the cushion.
Sent from my iPhone
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Britax is the worse. They keep saying this but all they are really saying is that they will “eliminate the use of all chemicals containing bromine or chlorine from all components used in our car seats and all other products”. They aren’t saying that they aren’t using flame retardants because they most definitely are. What they are saying is that they won’t be using bromine or chlorine in their products. So at least they are taking some of the most toxic chemicals out but they most definitely are still using chemicals and flame retardants. They are just spinning the story so people think that they are phasing out chemicals but they are only phasing out those two and just replacing them with others. I don’t recommend Britax from a toxicity stand point!
I really like your blog. It gave me invaluable ideas especially now that I am registering for my first baby. I have become so conscious of what we are eating, and wearing. Here is a frighting talk I just saw. It is not related to carseats and this post, but you may find it interesting:
So, it seems that Orbit baby is the safest option so far, though it is expensive. However, I just noticed on their website that Orbit products are free of BFR (Brominated Flame Retardants). How do we know that they are not using any other chemicals as fire retardants? Does their Oeko-Tex® Standard 100 forbid using any harmful chemicals?
I also appreciate any suggestions for buying Orbit baby system is. I was going to get stroller base (with or without stroller seat), and infant car seat. Reading your previous post on efficiency of their toddler convertible seat, I thought perhaps we better get that one, so we won’t have to change the car seat after a year or so. I am not sure though how it works for infants. What about the stroller seat? Is that needed? Or is it fairly easy to use the car seat on stroller base?
Thanks for the wonderful posts!
I saw that Ted talk awhile back. It’s really interesting and I hope it a lot of people watch it!
Oeko-Tek does not allow BFR. They do allow some FR that they deem safe, mostly saline based FR from what I understand. You can go to their website and review what is allowed in the Oeko-Tek standard. The entire basis for Oeko-Tek is safe products and not using toxic chemicals. For example, clothing is allowed to have AZO dyes which is heavy metals. Oeko-Tek does not allow this type of dye to be used. Actually, the US does not allow it to be used in clothing made here. However, clothing made in China most definitely can contain AZO dyes. I buy mostly GOTS certified clothing for my son. GOTS does not allow any FR where Oeko-Tek does allow safer FRs. I still stand that no FRs are safe but if the car seat world that just isn’t an option. Diono goes back and forth on FR but if they really didn’t use them they would be the only car seat in the market that doesn’t. Orbit does use Oeko-Tek approved FRs which again to my understanding are saline based. With GOTS or Oeko-Tek, 3rd party testing is done to make sure there isn’t any lead, other heavy metals, or other toxic chemicals.
I didn’t use the baby system. I don’t know if anyone here did? Maybe they can offer their opinion. I would also look up the convertible seat weight requirements. I’m not sure it would work with a newborn.
I have the Orbit baby system. You don’t need the stroller seat if you have the infant seat; in my opinion, it seems the stroller seat is something you’d use with the stroller once your baby was too old/big to fit in the infant seat. The infant seat easily snaps into the hub on the stroller and works really well with it.
Oh, I forgot the link to the talk in my previous post:
it is: http://www.ted.com/talks/tyrone_hayes_penelope_jagessar_chaffer_the_toxic_baby.html
Thanks for this blog, it’s very informative. I’m in Canada and I’ve been doing some research of my own. According to ConsumerReports.org the Diono is rated very poorly for safety. The Orbit is out of my price range, and the Clek seat covers don’t remove so I won’t consider those either. So of the great options you’ve discussed none are feasible for me. So I’m back to looking at mainstream brands, unfortunately. I see the comments regarding Britax and have therefore ruled that brand out. So I’m looking at Graco and other mainstream brands. Have you done any research on those? I know Graco promised to ban some fire retardants but do you know if they actually did that? And what did they use instead?
TIA.
p.s. I would recommend providing an update in the original blog post regarding your ongoing research. If I had not scrolled through the comments I would have missed this updated information.
This is the response I got from Britax:
Hello Ms. Janice,
As we revised our chemical compliance specifications last year, we made our own demands higher with all our suppliers. We required our Britax suppliers to be compliant by 2013. We apologize that we cannot give you any specific information because we deal with many different suppliers. So we would not be able to give exact dates and specs with so many suppliers involved. We can guarantee that all our seats are complaint. We have explicated many times in the past that some flame retardants are critical to achieve the flammability requirements mandated by the government. We use less toxic alternatives compared to the halogenated flame retardants
All of the fashions are flame retardant due to inherent properties of the materials used during manufacturing. This is in order for the covers to meet the U.S. Governments standards.
Best Regards
Britax Customer Service
Anyone know anything about Peg Perago?
My above comment was for Janice, it posted to a wrong place, not under her comment. Here it is again:
I can’t believe Diono keeps giving these different answers to people. I wish we could finally resolve this and know for sure of Diono does or does not use FR on their seat. You said there are FR in the foam of the cover but not the memory foam in other areas of the seat. I am not sure what other foam is in there besides inside the cover? I don’t see foam in anything but the cover, the seat is made of the frame and then the cover with the foam and fabric. What am I missing? Thanks!
Just wanted to state as well how helpful this blog has been. I have been through the same stuff with baby mattresses, SO frustrating.
And it’s also frustrating and sad that you basically need to be rich to be healthy- clothes, food, car seats, mattresses… Although on the clothes aspect- I buy only used clothes and wash them thoroughly (takes forever to get some detergent out!)
Anyway, I wanted to state that every mom (and dad) that has read this post already knows SO much more, and choosing either the Diono or the Orbit will be a much better choice then many other car seats out there. Keep up the good work everyone 🙂
Although it’s not a car seat issue, I’m currently trying to find a foam wedge for use in breastfeeding that doesn’t have flame retardants. In your searches to find foam that might be used in a car seat, has anyone found a company that makes foam without FRs where I might find a wedge? I’d love any help anyone can share!
I searched high & low for a non-toxic breastfeeding pillow and finally found this one, by San Diego Bebe: http://www.doubleblessings.com I’ve been really happy with it. Also, I swapped out the flame-retardant cushions in my nursery rocker for custom-made natural latex versions from a company called http://www.foamorder.com. I had a great experience with them.
There’s a store in San Francisco that sells foam as well as mattresses and other furniture that are natural and/or organic. http://www.organicmattressshop.com
I know it’s not foam but Holy Lamb Organics sells a nursing pillow too. It looks like a couple people recommended places to get foam. Good luck!
Thank you so much for the great recommendations! I actually contacted European Sleep Works (http://www.sleepworks.com) who have latex foam products, and they’re sending me a wedge pillow meant for use for under a pregnant belly, just for the shipping cost! But I’ve saved the sites you posted for later use. Looks like many could come in handy later!
This blog recommends several organic nursing pillows:
http://www.ireadlabelsforyou.com/organic-nursing-pillow-recommendations/
What carseat from orbit did you decide to go with and also have you heard about clek foonf?
I have the convertible car seat. Yes, I’m familiar with Clek. It’s talked about somewhere in the comments 🙂 I talked to them and they weren’t too familiar with the details of their fabric since it’s sourced from another company but they did tell me it is given a chemical bath so that it is stain resistant. I didn’t like that answer.
What about nuna pipa?
I’m pretty sure they use FR – sorry!
The nuna pipa states to have oeko-tex certification. Isn’t this the same as the orbit? Why is the nuna not a viable competitor among the less toxic car seats? Has anyone down any research on this car seat? Any input would be great! Thanks.
Yes, the only part Oeko-Tex certified on the Nuna Pipa is the fabric. It’s not the entire car seat.
I contacted Nuna to ask about the Pipa and what type of flame retardant they use and this was the response I received:
Hi Meagan,
I don’t have information as far as what is used as a flame retardant in the pipa, but I can tell you what is not used. It’s PVC free, lead free, phthalate (including DHEP) free, pbb, pbde and bromine free. 7T, tris-fr free (tcep, tpp, tocp, tccp, tdcpp, tdbpp and tbbpa free.
I hope that helps.
I am not sure what option that leaves for flame retardants, because all the ones I have heard of are listed here!
Thanks for sending this. I also called them this morning. They did tell me that they use FR in the foam. Since only the fabric is Oeko-Tex certified that tells me it is a FR that isn’t on the approved list by Oeko-Tex. Oeko-Tex allows some FR that they deem to be the least toxic (most are saline based I believe). Anyways, so they are not using those. There are a lot of FRs out there and she did not list all of them. What I was told today is that they are using non-brominated and non-chlorinated FR. They confirmed no lead or PVC is used. I asked them to find out which FR they are using. She took down my email and said she was going to talk to the designers to see if she could get an answer. I will keep you posted.
Here’s my thoughts. Orbit is the only car seat that is 100% Oeko-Tex certified and is the least toxic on the market. Is the Nuna Pipa better than Brittax or some of the other main stream car seat? Yes, no doubt. It just depends on if you want no toxins certified by Oeko-Tex or not.
I’ll keep you posted if they email me!
Thanks so much! I appreciate your feedback and knowledge. You have a great blog.
Ack, I’m sorry, I got my posts mixed up. The details I just gave you in my 1st reply were for Uppababy. I did call Nuna and they were less knowledgeable about where FR were used and what was used. They seemed a little confused but they are going to ask someone else for the details and hopefully get back to me. She told me the same thing, what was not used (which you listed above). I asked why the entire car seat wasn’t Oeko-Tex certified and why just the fabric was, she didn’t have an answer other than the FR they use aren’t approved by Oeko-Tex. She did tell me that they don’t use banned (haha, seriously?) or about to be banned FRs. The car seat, like most of the others, is made in China. I’ll let you know if they get back to me.
No problem. I would still like to hear back from you when or if they contact you. With that being said, knowing the information that you have obtained for the companies thus far, do you think that an Uppababy car seat would be a safer choice than the Nuna Pipa?
Heavens123 just posted a really good comment. I don’t think one is safer over another from a toxicity standpoint.
Hi Meagan, I heard back from Nuna regarding the FR they use. They use ammonium polyphosphate. She said they used it on the entire seat except the base since that is plastic. I copied over part of the MSDS sheet below. Spend some time looking up this FR to find more info.
From MSDS sheet:
2. HAZARDS IDENTIFICATION SUMMARY
KEEP OUT OF REACH OF CHILDREN – CAUTION – May cause mild eye and skin irritation. Avoid contact with skin, eyes, open cuts, or sores. In case of
contact, flush with water. Get medical attention for eyes. This liquid fertilizer is a reaction product of wet-process superphosphoric acid, anhydrous ammonia,
and water. Nausea and vomiting could be expected upon large dose ingestion. The acute ingestive effects are described as nausea, chills, and diarrhea. Eye
or skin contact with these products could cause irritation (particularly in sensitive persons), and respiratory irritation could be expected from the unprotected
inhalation of fertilizer mists. Product users should avoid prolonged or repeated skin contact by wearing impervious gloves, long sleeve shirt, long pants,
socks and rubber boots. Goggles for eye protection are recommended. Wash thoroughly after handling and using this product.
This product is a clear green liquid with slight odor. Primary routes of entry are Inhalation, eye contact and skin contact.
YIKES!
The skin contact could be an issue, certainly, and goodness knows what would happen if a child sucked on part of the fabric, but it seems like most of that is dangerous only when in a liquid form. What would the dangers be when dry?
I have no idea! That’s why I just stick to the Oeko-Tex certified seat ;).
From what I read ammonium polyphosphate is an inorganic FR, and has the benefit of not producing toxic gasses and are therefore considered physiologically harmless (NOT as super toxic as the halogen containing FRs with bromine and cholrine containing compounds). Ammonium polyphosphate is recommended as a safer alternative to the heavy duty FRs. Apparently a negative is that they have to use a lot of it for it to be effective as a FR–unsure exactly what this means but I think they have to super saturate stuff. Which shouldn’t matter if it’s not offgassing? I don’t know if it, like the halogenated FRs, will turn into dust and travel around. I’m assuming no issues with skin contact? I am going to investigate this stuff some more……I wish I had a chemist friend.
My understanding is that there is no such law requiring flame retardants be used on carseats, just the same as there being no law that they be used in mattresses or furniture. Rather, what the law says is that they must meet a certain fire retardancy standard and be tested for it. How they achieve that standard can vary. Depending on the product, in some cases, non-wool/non-cotton/non-chemical fabric barriers can be used. In others, wool can be used. That being said, if you want to ensure that what the company is using is non-toxic, then you would want either organic or Oeko-Tex 100 certification. The only carseat I know of that has the Oeko certification for both the fabric and foam, is Orbit. Having certficiation for the fabric, but not the foam is meaningless. And if a company tells you that they are no longer using XYZ, that is also meaningless in my view, because they could simply be replacing it with something that will be ultimately just as bad. Certification and testing seems to be the way to go.
Well said! You are 100% correct 🙂
Thank you for this article and the helpful posts! The only thing I don’t understand are the references to the orbit car seat being a fully oeko-tex certified product. From my limited knowledge, the above certification is only in reference to the fabric, both the orbit and the oeko-text website explain this. Also both the nuna pipa and the orbit products only state on their website that the fabrics are oeko-tex certified which I think means that includes the fire protectant applied. From what I understand, the certification is of the whole textile product including the fabric batting zippers, fire protectant applied, etc. It does not include the whole car seat including the epp inner foam, plastics etc. I do see where Orbit has gone above and beyond on other aspects of their product but they do clearly state that they use FR protectant and that it meets standards and doesn’t include all the above bad ones etc. Have you inquired of them which one they do use because it doesn’t say on their website and is likely to be the same or similar to what is used in the nuna pipa product.
Thanks, lori
Hi Lori,
I reached out to Orbit some time back to clarify if they were Okeo-Tex only on their fabric and I was told that BOTH the fabric and foam is Oeko-Tex certified. They are the only car seat manufacturer to do that. The FR that Nuna told me they use is not approved by Oeko-Tek / I did not see it on the Oeko-Tek web site.
Yes, FR are allowed w/in Oeko-Tex but they are the ones deemed to be the least toxic.
Sorry in the delay in getting back to you, I’ve been trying to find the time to dig into this further. I have emails from Orbit stating that the fabric and foam are both Oeko-Tek certified from October of 2012. I called today and found out that now it is only the fabric. They claim nothing has changed with the foam though. They will not release what FR they use. I asked them for the contact information of the company that makes the foam. I’ll see if I can figure this all out. Really, really disappointing that they dropped the Oeko-Tek from their foam. That was the entire benefit of Orbit!
I have the Orbit set, but feel it might not be as chemically safe as I once thought it was. On HealthyStuff.org some of their parts in some years tested positive for bromine. Bromine is an indication of PBDE flame retardants and not a good thing to test positive for when all of their marketing says otherwise. Maybe they have an explanation. In 2010, when I bought the set, their company was the only one sold in the US that was even talking about flame retardants, so it’s disappointing that any of their products tested positive for bromine.
My son is now 4 and so I am on the search for a booster seat. So far I found one brand that has a promising press release (if you ignore the fabric has stain guard). According to the press release, Clek has teamed up with Healthy Stuff.org for their 2014 models (although I can’t figure out how to tell if you’re buying 2014 model or an earlier one because they look the same and the press release only came out Feb. 24, 2014).
The whole Clek Press Release is here http://media.clekinc.com/, but I’ve just pasted the most relevant parts below:
“Clek 2014 car seats officially free of bromine and chlorine-based flame retardants as per HealthyStuff.org
Toronto, ON, February 24, 2014- Clek, the award-winning child passenger safety seat manufacturer, is the first of its industry to announce its 2014 model year products are free of bromine and chlorine-based flame retardants, while still meeting the federally-required automotive fire-safety standards…
…Car seats are required to meet the most stringent automotive fire-safety standards and must use flame retardants. “As part of Clek’s ongoing commitment to continuously improve its environmental profile, we are sourcing materials that use non-halogenated flame retardants or alternative materials that comply with safety standards,” explains Chris Lumley, President of Clek.
A leader in product innovation, all of Clek’s booster seats ranked as ‘best picks for boosters’ in HealthyStuff.org’s study published in 2011. The new and improved 2014 models are now available for the Foonf convertible car seat and the Oobr booster.
Being at the forefront of environmental and health safety for child passenger seat manufacturers, Clek uses GREENGUARD Select Certified fabrics, offers recycling of all of its products and has now taken steps to ensure that all models are free of bromine and chlorine flame retardant chemicals…”
I do not think that the Orbit baby is 100% Oeko-tek certified. Here is some info i’ve received from their customer service: “…The Car Seat foam is treated with flame retardants to meet the car seat flammability requirements. All car seat manufacturers use the flame retardant treated polyurethane foam. We have not done any exposure tests to check whether the flame retardants travel though the fabric. Orbit Baby has tried to reduce the exposure by using Oeko Tex certified fabric, so that the primary surface of contact is safe….”
So it seems that only the cover fabric is Oeko-tek certified but not the foam.
I just found out that they use to be Oeko-Tek certified on the foam and fabric and now it is just the fabric. I have an email from them in October of 2012 stating that they are the only car seat company that both the fabric and foam is Oeko-Tek certified. The change has happened in the last year. I will update the blog when I have some time.
Have they said whether this applies to G2 models or G3 only? So devastated to hear this. The Orbit was expensive, but we dealt with the cost to keep our child safe.
I’ve just sent them an email myself to verify for myself what is being said. If they said that nothing has changed, but the foam is no longer certified, then something isn’t right. Why wouldn’t it still be certified? It will be a tragedy if this is true because of all the people using Orbit (myself included), the #1 reason they were chosen was because both the foam AND fabric were certified. I’m in need of a toddler car seat now, and if the new model is no longer certified, then I will be looking for an older model.
Exactly, I agree 100%, something is up. I really hope they give me the contact info of the company they get their foam from. My guess is that they won’t. Really something needs to be done about the rules and regulations of car seats. It is crazy that little ones are being subjected to who knows what kind of toxic chemicals and we are being totally left in the dark. I was very upset to learn about this and let Orbit know how unacceptable this is (even thought I’m sure it didn’t make a difference). Keep me posted on what you hear and I’ll update if I hear anything from them.
Thanks for the update. That is unfortunate news. It sounds like to me that this has always been the case and they gave you misinformation back in 2012. From my knowledge of fabric testing companies (I’m a Healthcare designer and work with treated/tested fabrics and tested furniture pieces), they do not consider foam a textile. My best guess would be that Oeko-Tex does not test foams. Here is the information that i found from Orbit Baby related to flame retardants. They sort of skip around by including the foam in sentences with the fabric but then never say what they do to the foam, only to the textile:
http://www.orbitbaby.com/en/articles/flame-retardants/
I don’t own anything that is Oek-Tex certified yet but if you do, you can type in the certificate number on the Oeko-Tex website and it will check the validity and tell you what kind of certification it has. That may help.
It was a very clearly stated claim of theirs that they were the only company that had Oeko-Tex 100 certification for both the fabric AND foam. I have noticed that some of the places still selling the G2 no longer have that claim. And their literature no longer makes that claim and kind of skirts around it. Now they say “All of our car seat fabrics and foams are tested at independent, accredited labs on a per production basis to ensure compliance to federal flammability standards as well as “below detection” limits on bromine, which is further confirmed through internal analysis (XRF). Click here to see a sample XRF screening report. ”
The XRF testing is kind of strange, because they also have this on their website: http://www.orbitbaby.com/en/support/healthystuff/ which essentially disputes the results that healthystuff came up with in their testing where they found chemicals on Orbit via XRF.
I am looking forward to their response. I am looking for a truthful and direct response, whatever the truth is. Anything less than 100% honest, good or bad, would cause me to no longer trust them.
Interesting. I guess the easiest way to find out is look for a certificate number on or maybe near the foam on the car seat. If there is a number, plug it into the Oeko-Tex website and see the certification, if there isn’t one, then it probably isn’t certified. They may have unintentionally made false claims about their foam and are correcting their marketing info now. Just a thought.
They responded back to me today saying the Oeko-Tek certified foam manufacturer went out of business and they started using a new manufacturer. They will not give me time lines or models. They are being very close mouthed about it which is scary. I’m testing my foam and will keep you posted. I’m also going to look for the Oeko-Tek number and will get back to. Thanks for the info!
I no longer trust them. They are not being forthcoming. They are using a new foam manufacturer and aren’t giving any details. At least Nuna told us what they use. It’s our right to know what we are exposing our children to. It is so frustrating.
For those that already own the Orbit, you should feel comforted that Orbit seems to be the most proactive company overall in relation to keeping your child safe from the toxins in flame retardants and other contaminants like heavy metals (see link in my last post above). Most of the generic car seat manufacturers include terrible things in their products that the Orbit does not. At least your child won’t be chewing on toxic fabrics and their skin won’t be absorbing toxins from the fabric. For me, I purchased a Nuna Pippa and it is to arrive today at my house. We’ll see how toxic it smells when i take it out of the box. I’m hoping to air it out as much as possible before our baby comes. It too has the Oeko-tex fabric and i believe the fabric is removable and washable.
Well, in regards to the toxic chemicals used in Orbit products I came across this article https://www.chanler.com/notices/archive/ergo-baby-carrier-inc-orbit-baby-inc
Basically it states that the Orbit Baby Bassinet Cradle G2 model Mocha I Khaki UPC #8 98618 00138 6 contains
Listed Chemical: Tris(1,3-dichloro-2-propyl) phosphate (“TDCPP”)
Routes of Exposure: ngestion, Dermal, Inhalation
Type of Harm: Cancer
I called the chanler group and they confirmed that they’ve tested this bassinet and that is how they know that it contains TDCPP. They could not give me any farther info because it is an ongoing case but sooner or later the results will be posted on their website.
This very item can still be purchased on Amazon; the product description contains the following info “Made with Certified Materials
In keeping with Orbit Baby’s green philosophy, the bassinet offers fabric and foams that are certified by Oeko-Tex Standard 100, which sets strict limits on close to 200 potentially harmful substances and chemicals. You’ll rest easy knowing that your baby is surrounded by safe, materials”. I cannot imagine that Oeko-Tex Standard 100 approves TDCPP.
It goes without saying that i’ve decided against Orbit baby products after reading this.
BTW, the Center for Environmental Health has just recently published this article:
http://www.ceh.org/productswithoutflameretardants/
I’ve contacted both Britax and Combi USA and am waiting for a reply. I’d suggest you guys contact them as well – the more people will contact these companies the more likely the chance that they might actually eliminate all chemical flame retardants (or may be i am just a dreamer)
Thanks for sending this. That lawsuit is very upsetting to me and confirms other reports about the FR they are now using. I’m sending my foam off to be tested. Btw, Britax is NOT saying that they aren’t using FR, they are just not going to be using Brominated FR or Tris. Their marketing team is doing a really good job with this. They are still using them. I don’t know about Combi though. Let me know what you find out. I’m so upset about Orbit I can’t even think about anything else right now. I’ve shared your link with other sites that are exposing Orbit right now too. Thanks!
How do you send it for testing? I’d love to do that. I have a G2 and want to know if mine has dangerous FRs.
Yes, you should do it! Duke University is testing and each person can send in 5 samples for free. It does take 45 days for you to get the results back. I sent mine in today plus a few extra things I wanted to get tested 🙂 Here is the link, just click on submit a sample http://foam.pratt.duke.edu/
A follower of Organic Baby University tipped them off to Duke doing this testing. There are a lot of upset people; hopefully a lot of people submit samples and we get some answers!
CombiUSA replied back and it appears that they will continue using FR. It looks like CEH.ORG posted this info without fully investigating the issue. I will let them know.
Looks like Ergo baby/Orbit baby have reached a settlement of some sort https://www.chanler.com/cases/archive/held-v-ergo-baby-carrier-inc
Thanks for sharing – interesting!
I also purchased the Nuna Pipa, it seems to have the same Oeko-Tex certification (fabric and fabric padding, but not the foam on the seat itself) and it is less expensive than the Orbit. It can also be used with 20 different stroller bases to create a travel system and is much lighter in weight than the Orbit. I washed the seat covers twice and let them air dry outside, that seemed to eliminate any traces of material smells that I could pick up. I wish they would have used a sewn on Warning label on the cushions, instead of the printed on version because I know that has some not so great chemicals, but the Nuna was the best choice I could find with the knowledge I had.
Hi Meagan,
Which stroller did you go with? We have the Pepp on the way to try out but we live in a more rural area near a beach and the Pepp seems so urban. I’m not sure it can hang in my environment…
Hi Lori,
I purchased the Baby Jogger City Versa, it wasn’t one of the models that Nuna says it is compatible with but when I emailed Baby Jogger they told me that the Nuna would work with Maxi Cosi adapters. This is the model they said to use Baby Jogger Car Seat Adapter, Multi Model Model # BJ90323. I am waiting for the adapter to come in, I will let you know how it fits.
I have been following this post for a long time and shared my experiences deciding on a car seat about 6 mo ago. Long story short, we went with a Diono is Storm after I was repeatedly told by multiple people at Diono that their foam is not treated with any flame retardants; the density of the foam itself makes it inherently flame retardant (and their Storm and Rugby fabrics are material that also does not need to be treated). I honestly have never felt totally settled about this as I don’t know if I believe them but it felt like the best and safest option for us, even though I had debated and considered an Orbit seat as well. Now that all of this is coming out about Orbit and the new Duke program that allows you to test foam for free, I just wanted to say that I am sending in foam from our Diono to be tested and plan to keep you all posted on the results! I encourage others to do the same! Stay tuned…
I too went with the diono. I could not get the orbit in Canada and after all my research and contact with numerous companies it was the seat I felt most comfortable with. I found them to be very consistent and even sent me pics to clarify the foam that was treated and the one that isn’t. There was a yellow foam in the cover that bothered me so I removed it. Sadly I think we will be hard pressed to find a car seat without any flame retardants. Do the new regulation pertain to car seats as well? That they will not have to have flame retardants? Hopefully this is the case and hopefully manufacturers will choose not to use any. I have contacted many furniture stores that are sadly planning to cobtinue to use them. So disappointing! I’m looking forward to hear the results of the foam in the diono. Hopefully they are true to their word
I just looked at the Diono website since I am looking for a convertible carseat. It says “Our goal was to develop a fabric that required no additional FR treatment at all. To that end, we have already started down that path. Our new RadianR series seats will feature seats in colors called ‘Storm’ and ‘Rugby’ and these seats feature our new micro-mesh velour fabric that was made without requiring any additional flame retardant treatment at all.”
What about the foam. I’m assuming that it is treated, but with what? Anyone know?
Janice – did they tell you the yellow foam was treated? I am curious what they specified to you. Can you share? Thanks!
They told me the foam within the seat cover was treated. Not sure if that meant the yellow foam or the stuff sewed into it. I took the yellow foam out. The foam under the cover is not supposed to be treated as with the cover itself. Polyurethane is highly flammable and is what is required to be treated. Not sure about polypropylene but I think it’s different.
They have said multiple times that the foam isn’t treated. They also have said that it is. There is a lot of confusion around it. I think it’s interesting that they say without requiring any ADDITIONAL flame retardant treatment. So are they not adding anything but are they saying the fabric company did in a round about way? Every time I talked to them, and many of the readers talked to them, they said no FR in those specific fabrics.
I’m so glad you’re having it tested! Our son may outgrow the Orbit sooner than we thought; I’m concerned about what to go to next.
Does anyone know if Duke will let us know what the results are or will they just lump all the information directly?
Laurie – I think they are responding to all of us individually. That is what it seems like from the info on their site. I hope so!
In response to heavens123 and to tag onto what naturalbabymama said, they told me many many times over multiple conversations that their foam is a density that allowed it to meet flame retardancy requirements without chemical FRs. When I pressed them about the “additional” FRs on those two fabrics, and asked if there was any chemical treatment at all, again I was told that the material itself (being a polyester) is inherently flame retardant. I pushed and pushed and they confirmed no chemical FRs were used on the fabric. So… we’ll see.
One sort of interesting development – maybe? – is that I just cut some of the foam from my Diono to send in to Duke and noticed (I don’t know how I didn’t notice this before) that the tag says it’s polypropylene foam. I think most of these items with heavy FRs are polyurethane foam. I did a quick google search and didn’t turn up much but one article did mention that polypropylene tends to melt as opposed to burn (like polyester). So perhaps it does in fact meet the flame retardancy standards without chemical FRs? Perhaps Diono was telling me the truth?! There are three types of foam in the seat – the polypropylene that is attached to the fabric, a small piece of yellow foam on the actual seat (bum) part, and then syrofoam-y type foam around the frame. I cut small pieces of all three to submit! Will definitely post the findings here…
I’m looking forward to the findings! Thanks!
Yes, they will send you the results individually but it takes about 45 days.
I wonder what foam I should clip to send in for the Orbit G2 infant car seat. I did a cursory inspection yesterday, and found only a very hard Styrofoa- like foam that was part of the bottom of the car seat, and then the pad that the child lies on which seems to be completely enclosed in fabric. For those who sent their foam in, did you open up the fabric pad to get the foam inside? Or is there something else I should do? Or did you send a sample of the Styrofoam part?
I did open the fabric to get the foam inside. I did it from the back and will stitch it back up at some point. I also sent in a sample of the hard foam / Styrofoam that was part of the car seat too.
I am so frustrated by all these car seat and stroller manufacturers, and feel lost. I’m expecting in July, and live in Canada, making it even more difficult to find a somewhat safer option. The Orbit G3 is not yet available here, and won’t make it in time before the baby is born, and the Nuna Pipa is not available here either. Those two seem to be the lesser of the two evils. Any suggestions or recommendations from anyone?
If you can wait a month and a half some of the tests should start coming back in from other car seats. I’m most curious about Diono. That may be an option for you if the tests on the foam come back good.
Yes, I’ll wait to hear what the results are! 🙂
Check into the Clek, which is made in Canada. Had good ratings. It’s so very frustrating.
I’ll look into them a bit further, but they don’t have an infant seat suitable for newborns. I feel a bit iffy about their stain and water resistant crypton fabric. Anyone have much experience with that type of fabric?
I felt the same way, iffy, so I looked at their site and got the name of the fabric and then googled it. It seemed like at least it was an attempt at an eco-friendly, healthier fabric, so….not sure it doesn’t contain ANYTHING but it looks like they’re trying. I still ended up going with the leather seat, just in case. I called and it has nothing on it except the leather, naturally. 🙂 I needed a booster seat this time, not a full carseat, so I’m not sure about the foam. 🙁
Crypton is a product that is imbedded into the fiber when the fiber is made, so it’s inherently a part of the fiber. It is not an application or a spray. It’s greenguard certified which is the best certification in the US. Crypton exploded in healthcare design in the early 2000’s and can contribute to LEED credits. Its inherently impervious to spills and mildew. The only downside is that they recommend you use their cleaning products which isn’t a big deal. Now, with that being said, the fabric could easily be sprayed with fireproofing because crypton is not a way to make a fiber or the fabric it becomes, fire resistant. It’s only for making it water and mildew resistant.
Thanks Lori that is helpful! Do you know what Crypton is or what makes its properties water resistant?
C.Bennett,
Did they tell you that there are no FR on the leather seat? If that is the case then how do they meet the federal standard? Is leather a natural FR? I’m hesitant to purchase leather with it being summer,too.
So sorry it’s taken me so long! Yes, leather doesn’t need FR’s, as wool doesn’t either. And yes, they did confirm it on the phone. Personally, I’d rather deal with the leather in the heat than whatever gets put on the fabric seats of these things. 🙁 And you could always lay a cloth (organic of course :)) on the seat if it’s too hot.
Did you ask them about how it was tanned?
I’m sorry, no I didn’t. 🙁 There’s always something to be concerned about isn’t there.
Sadly, there is. I actually called them. They were going to try and find out. I’ll post it here if they get back to me.
So about leather, I would ask how it is tanned. The tanning process can be quite toxic. I would ask if they use formaldehyde and/or chromium. Both are pretty toxic. Are they better than FR, I think just different. I would be surprised if they had to use FR on leather though. It seems to me like it wouldn’t burn very fast.
Hi. I’ve been considering the Clek and was wondering if you got your seat tested, what do you know about the leather model and if you got the beige or the black. I suppose the beige one is better?
I haven’t had it tested, since the leather doesn’t have anything on it and it would be difficult to get through the leather to test the foam. But I figure I’ll go with what they said, that they don’t use the harmful chemicals, and with the fact that it’s covered by untreated leather it makes me feel better. I didn’t see an option for beige! Wish I had. Anyway, I feel that it’s the best we could do given the options. We’re pretty happy with it.
So 1 person tested their Clek, she had the foam tested under the head rest and it came back from Duke not testing positive for any of the 7 most common FSs. However, they may not have treated the headrest. She sent back in another sample of the foam in the seat and we are waiting to hear back.
I’ve tried to contact Clek twice but I got no reply. When checking the Clek Foonf in store I’ve noticed that the cover doesn’t entirely cover the foam which is exposed in several places. The company not bothering to offer any information about their car seats makes me think there’s something horribly wrong with them.
Maybe I should just fly to Europe and get a car seat there 🙂
I have the Clek. I called them and they said they don’t use any chemicals…also they said the foam, in the head rest I believe, is like styrofoam and isn’t treated. Also, the fabric completely covers the foam on mine…
in this thread naturalbabymama mentions a reader had their clek tested and the foam came back negative from duke. do we know if they tested a leather or fabric seat? i wonder if the surface material may change the type of foam used underneath. i cant find anywhwere in the comments where the reader may have posted these test results. also….thank you naturalbabymama and everyone here for doing all you do to make this a safer, saner world for our children. it is incredibly sad that we need to go to these lengths to achieve what should be basic health and safety standards for our families. it breaks my heart that families of less means or education are frequently left in the dark and have access only to the worst (environmental-health wise) products.
It was a fabric seat she had tested. I’m not sure if the foam would change, my guess is that everything is streamlined and the same foam is used (but that is totally a guess!). She had the head rest area test and some people (including myself) thought that maybe that wasn’t treated like the foam actually in the car seat was. I haven’t seen an update if she tested the other section. With all that being said if I was in the market now I would be leaning towards Clek for a convertible.
Thanks for clarification naturalbabymama. We are likely buying the clek foonf in the next couple weeks, and I’ll see if we can cut off apiece of foam for testing w/o it messing up the seat too much. Thanks to everyone here for contributing to the conversation!
I heard back from Orbit today via email. I contacted them on Wednesday to clarify whether the foam is no longer certified and to ask what model car seats I should be looking at if I wanted to buy one that was manufactured when the foam was still certified. Here was the response I received:
“Thank you for contacting us here at Orbit Baby. This is an issue that we are currently looking into.
Best Regards, “
I called to talk with them about some other issues, and asked about this, too. The person I spoke with said they are not yet sure which models are affected and are currently looking into it. I asked if I could be notified when they had figured it out and she said she would add my e-mail to the list of people to contact. The way she said this made me think that the company may have been surprised to find that the foam they were using was not what they thought it was. Or, perhaps, they are just hedging until they figure out hot to respond. But it did seem like they might have been truly surprised to find the foam was treated, if they thought the manufacturer providing it to them was doing as they’d requested. It seems like it might be a complicated issue. Not that I’m in any way okay with finding out that our super-expensive purchase may have been for naught.
If I find my exorbitant purchase does not have certified foam, I will be very upset. That’s why I live on a shoestring — so that I can still buy safe items for my baby. I’m a single mom and it was very tough for me to manage the cost of that car seat.
That being said, I now need a convertible car seat and even if the foam is not certified, since Orbit states what chemicals are not used and they seem to be the only proactive company, I would naturally look to them. Even if they are not certified, the worst offenders are not being used — or so I thought. If there is a lawsuit as I have read about because Tris was found in their bassinet, then not only are we dealing with lack of certification, but something is being used that they specifically said was not being used.
That’s a whole other story.
Yeah the lawsuit finding the Tris in the bassinet is very concerning. We’ll all have our answers when the test results come back.
It is hard to believe that they can be “truly surprised” since on their own website they state “…We do extensive testing of our fabrics and foams to ensure they are safe:
Our car seat fabrics and foams are checked with preliminary XRF screening. (Click here to see a sample XRF screening report). These materials are also tested at independent, accredited labs on a per production basis, to ensure compliance to federal flammability standards, as well as “below detection” limit on bromine with the higher precision wet chemistry tests….”
Or, do they really test the materials as they say they do?
Why would they be checking for “below detection” limits of something they don’t use in their products? How would it get in there if they’re not using it?
No, they are not surprised. I was told at first it the foam was coming from the same manufacturer but they are no longer certified (which seemed odd). Then I was told via email that the company that made the Oeko-Tek foam went out of business so they had to switch suppliers. They knew they went with a company that was not Oeko-Tek certified.
On their website it states “We use third party validated and certified materials:
The fabrics and foams used on all Orbit Baby G2 products adhere to the international Oeko-Tex® Standard 100…”
However, the chanler’s group 60 day notice IS about a G2 product so go figure.
Sorry, posted in the wrong place. This was for “Heavens123 on April 11, 2014 at 8:50 pm”
Their website is still saying fabric and foam? I thought they changed it to say fabric and just omitted foam.
It says on this page
http://www.orbitbaby.com/en/support/healthystuff/
Yep, they have shut down communication with people. I was told they can’t give me any more information. I think they need to figure their stuff out before releasing any information to the public.
Good news just keep on coming:
http://ecofriendlyusa.wordpress.com/2014/04/09/orbit-car-seat-contains-flame-retardants/
This was posted on 09 APR 2014
I’m wondering: are FRs usually used on styrofoam?
On a different topic: does anyone know what strollers (separate ones not needing a car seat for seating) are most likely to be FR free? We have the Orbit stroller, but it doesn’t function without a seat, and if all the seats have FRs, then . . . I guess we’ll be stroller shopping.
I have a used Mountain Buggy and it does not contain FR. I made sure to buy an older model that was still made in New Zealand. The BOB is also FR free but is coated in polyurethane which I don’t love my son being that close too. The sun shade is much better on the BOB and the stroller itself is bigger and can carry a bigger kid. Now that my son is 2, he is getting a little big for the Mountain Buggy but it still works. He fitts totally fine in the BOB. We originally bought the BOB thinking that was the stroller to get. I just sat my son in the BOB for the 1st time in close to 2 years the other day just to see how he fits 🙂
I have mamas and papas SOLA stroller and the company confirmed that they do not use FR in strollers:
http://us.mamasandpapas.com/strollers+accessories/strollers/icat/subcatstrollers
She posted this on her blog only because of information she read on Organic Baby University. She doesn’t have any 1st hand knowledge of the Orbit situation and she doesn’t own an Orbit. She was trying to relay information about it so I wouldn’t read too much into this blog post 🙂
This sounds like a disaster for both the consumers and the company.
At this point, do not rely on a few internet postings and rumors to sort this out. Not fair to the company and not fair to ourselves. The internet is reliably unreliable. EVERYONE, send in your foam YOURSELF and get it tested as suggested by other posters. Let’s see for ourselves what the results are. Save your emails from the company. Save printouts of where the company is making claims.
Good sense dictates that Orbit is certainly allowed to stop using certified foam as long as they cease to claim that they do. I would think they could do it quietly and that’s perfectly alright. But if they have been using other products that they explicitly state that they do not, then that will most likely result in legal action, if it has not already.
That being said, can someone please reiterate how and what we should be sending in? On the carseats I see Styrofoam on the shell. There’s more foam under the fabric. How do we get to that padding to sample it? Let’s get samples of every model and every product tested
.
Amen to your voice of reason. I’m wondering where the best place is to get the samples of foam without making my car seat unsafe. It’s a very small sample, but I could see in a large piece of Styrofoam that if I start cutting into it I might cause cracks or fissures that might make it not safe. I would really love any assistance anyone has on how to get that sample without hurting my car seat.
I sent in a sample of both. For the foam inside the fabric (that’s mostly likely where FR are but I’m not 100% on that) I just cut along a seam line in the back of the fabric and took out a small piece of foam.
Did you send in a sample of the white hard foam pieces that are in Velcro pockets on either side of the cover?
I didn’t. I did the Styrofoam that physically is attached to the base and some soft foam inside the cover. I didn’t actually realize that there was hard foam inside the cover.
The hard foam is velcroed into pockets on either side of the fabric liner near the top. The pockets open in back. I just sent my samples in today, and I sent a sample of the foam from inside the fabric and also that hard foam. I’ll report back when I hear from Duke.
Great – thanks!
Just went to the submission form for Duke and it says “Submissions for this form are closed.”
They only take so many a month; I believe it’s 50. That means that we have to wait until next month to submit our samples.
Thank you. It’s on my calendar for May 1.
I am looking forward to hearing the results of what people are testing since I am in the market for a car seat now. I’m hoping we have lots of Orbit and other alternatives being tested.
Meanwhile, I wanted to caution people to not consider what a company says to you on the phone as being written in stone. They can change their minds and/or claim it was an errant operator. What they are telling you about materials should be in writing, both on their website and via email.
And why wouldn’t it be? If a carseat is using a special type of foam that doesn’t need fire retardants, why wouldn’t they say so openly? There are so many articles about this issue that they surely must know what a selling point it is. Can you imagine a food company making an organic product and then not telling anyone that it’s organic? No. If they tell you on the phone there are no fire retardants and it’s not backed up by a written statement, I would not trust it.
Can we have a roll call of what exact products people have sent in for testing to Duke this month? If everyone could put the make and model number and what components they sent in, that would be very helpful. We’ll all know what’s on tap, especially those of us who are waiting to purchase products. I won’t be able to submit until May 1, meaning it could be 45 days after that.
I just want to add one comment about the Orbit car seat. I read this blog months ago and went out and got one. Then my sister sent me the Consumer Reports info on the seat. It has really really low crash safety ratings. It almost didn’t pass. All of Orbit’s products fair poorly. It’s a travesty that, if we imagine that they don’t have flame retardants, one has to pick between toxins and crash safety. But given the long term affects of the flame retardants, and the immediate safety issues from poor crash ratings, I’m not sure the flame retardants even matter. We should all just look at the chemical content of the top 10 safest car seats, no?
The consumer test was done and it did do poorly. Orbit addressed it, consumer reports did another test and it was fine. Here is the link http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2010/11/latest-orbit-infant-car-seat-the-g2-passes-consumer-reports-crash-tests/index.htm. If you are concerned about it don’t use the base, which is where the problem was back in 2009.
If you read earlier comments, you’ll see I said a similar thing. However, Orbit actually did poorly in original tests by Consumer Reports, but they were retested by the government, and did very well in all those tests. It doesn’t get “excelent” as a rating, but some of the ratings are based on things such as “ease of use,” which is hardly a safety issue, unless you cannot install the seat correctly. I’ve found it very easy to use.
One further comment about Orbit: they recently came out with a new model: thd G3. It could have FRs (we don’t yet know what models have them), but it may earn a different safety rating.
My Duke University test came back today. I tested the foam inside the fabric and it came back positive for FR – Result: We detected TDCPP in this sample.
I also tested the Styrofoam that is attached the car seat and it did not have FR – Result: No flame retardants detected.
Jennifer at Organic Baby University also tested a Diono Storm (which the company claimed to be free of FR) car seat and it tested positive for TDCPP also.
Did anyone test the G3? My Orbit was purchased in the fall of 2012.
What is TDCPP? TDCPP
TDCPP, or tris (1,3-dichloro-2-propyl) phosphate, is an organophosphate flame retardant that is being used to replace PentaBDE. TDCPP, which is used as an additive flame retardant in resins, polymers, latexes, and foams, is most widely used in the US (annual estimations are 4,500-22,700 metric tons).1 There is evidence that TDCPP is a probable carcinogen and a developmental neurotoxicant2, as well as an endocrine disruptor in fish.
For more information on TDCPP, read
This Environmental Health Perspectives article,
This technical report published by California’s EPA in 2011, and
This factsheet from EPA’s Environmental Profiles of Chemical Flame Retardant Alternatives report on their Design for the Environment page.
What item and model of Orbit did you test that came back with Tris (g1, g2 or g3). Not only do they state they do not have detectable levels of Tris in their products, as confirmed by independent testing, but Tris is not allowed under Oeko-Tex 100 is it? If it isn’t and they were advertising the foam as being certified….
Mine is a G2 purchased in late 2012. No Tris is most definitely not allowed in Oeko-Tek. Orbit has come out recently and said that they started phasing out Oeko-Tek foam in 2012. They did it very quietly by only changing the website wording. Super shady. They still claim they third party test and TDCPP isn’t in their product which obviously isn’t true. This is why I started blogging, you really can’t trust anyone. It’s really sad. Serious reform needs to happen.
naturalbabymama, it is like with me buying a super expensive NUI 100% organic merino wool pants for my little son- the NUI Organics website states “100% organic” on their logo, the item description stated 100% certified organic wool, the sealed plastic bag with a bar code where the pants were also said certified organic wool, but guess what- the pant were not certified organic!!! I contacted NUI and they admitted making some non organic items for 2013. But by looking at the website, and at the item description (i bought it on Zulily), and at the sealed bag, one could never tell that these were non organic. Because of this shady practices one has no other option but to question anything and everything and even then there is no guarantee a truthful answer will be provided.
I know, it’s so hard. I had the same experience with NUI. I ordered from Zulily, opened the bag and it reeked like chemicals. I’ve actually emailed them 3 or 4 times and they never responded. Interesting that they responded and told you it wasn’t certified organic. Each time I emailed I asked if they were GOTS certified and that is what they never responded to.
Hi, this isn’t about car seats, but it’s about flame retardants — by the way, it sounds like you and I have gone through a very very similar experience (as probably many moms who care about the world, their children, and their health have). We have a Eco Classical I crib mattress, and this is the correspondence I had over email with the company:
1. Hi,
We purchased the Eco Classica I for our daughter’s nursery, and I would like to find out if you use chemical flame retardants in the mattress.
Thank you.
2.Julia,
We do not use chemicals.
Cordially,
David
3. Hi, David,
Thank you for your prompt response. Would you be able to tell me precisely what is in the flame retardants that you use?
Thank you again,
4. We use a natural cellulose rayon product that has inherent flame reduction capabilities.
Best,
David
I have tried to read about this, and it’s clearly synthetic but is it a “better” alternative to standard flame retardants? What do you think? Thank you!
Yes, I agree with you. It’s synthetic and it’s wrapping the mattress to provide the flame resistance. It is WAY better than chemical flame retardants. I’m sure there is cotton or something else wrapping the outside of the mattress correct? The rayon is under that so I think it’s totally fine.
Duke foam testing still says it’s closed for submissions. I will try again later today. I will refrain from judgment and action until I have received my own sample back. Samples can be contaminated if near other items with fire retardant, so it is prudent for everyone to have their foam tested, especially since the more positive tests there are, the more undeniable it is and cannot be chalked up to being an anomaly. I’m not in anyway discounting what anyone is saying here, but before I pursue this, I must have something first hand in hand, as should we all.
They are now open-I have just used the form to submit my 5 samples.
I agree with you 100%. Let me know what your results come back with.
How do you submit a sample? Can anyone do it? Can it be of any foam, like if I want to test an old couch? Thanks!
This is how you submit it http://foam.pratt.duke.edu/how-submit-sample.
Anyone can do it, it’s free, and you are allowed 5 samples. They close down for the month after 50 samples are reached so log in today and get your samples in. You should test your old couch! I tested a bunch of things – well 5 🙂
Did Duke tell you how much TDCPP they found? I’m wondering if it’s possible for the seat to have become slightly contaminated by the car itself? the foam seats in the car have to be just completely saturated with FRs, not to metion other nasty stuff… I’m really trying to understand why Orbit would continue to insist they don’t use TDCPP if they do.
No, they don’t tell how much. It’s either there or it isn’t there. I’ve email Orbit to ask how this could be if they are supposedly doing third party testing. I just emailed them this morning. I kind of doubt it is from the car itself. The foam is sealed under the fabric. I had to cut open the fabric to get a piece of the foam. There is a good chance they didn’t know they were using TDCPP and it came from a supplier that way. Either way, Orbit claims to do testing and clearly something is off. I’m actually going to look into getting it tested here locally to see if I can get some values on it (how much is found). I just need to look into the cost of doing that…
I’m sending in samples, and noted that on Duke’s website, you need to agree with this statement in order to send a sample:
“I understand that the results provided to me through this service are not guaranteed in any way by Duke University, and I will not use these results as part of any consumer litigation. I understand that the results provided to me are for informational purposes only. ”
So we can challenge Orbit on this, but this info can’t be used as part of litigation. Worth noting.
I hope to mail my samples on Monday. I bought my G2 in October of last year.
I know, I read that when I submitted samples too. I have no problem paying to get my foam tested again somewhere else if it gets to that point. They need to be held accountable. I emailed Orbit today and received an email back pretty quickly asking for my phone number so she could call me. I think we are going to talk on Monday. We’ll see.
naturalbabymama, Did Orbit call you?
They did and left me a message. I haven’t called back yet but they want to buy my seat back and have the Duke testing results. I think they are looking for people who have the tests from Duke to buy seats back from. If anyone is interested I’ll give you their contact info. I haven’t called back because I don’t know if that is the route I want to go. I ended up buying a seat cover at the end of last year so my son isn’t using their cover with FR in it anymore.
The foam is pretty well protected in the fabric. Orbit SPECIFICALLY sold these seats as having Oeko-Tex certified foam AND they specifically state (and still do) that they do not use Tris and do independent third party testing to confirm such. If the Duke tests are accurate, there are only so many possibilities and they all lead to Orbit being in big trouble.
Ugh. What is everyone going to do? I’ve found myself limiting the time we go in the car now, which is so unfair to my daughter. But I cringe every time I buckle her in.
This entire this is so sad. horrifying and frustrating. Late last year I had a cover made by Nollie Covers and it uses organic cotton and wool. A lot of people don’t agree with replacing the car seat cover so each person has to make their own decision. It was a pain dealing with Nollie Covers, she was super responsive at first then 2 1/2 months after she said it would be ready she finally shipped it out. Plus it’s super expensive. I have no idea what the best thing to do it. The Nuna is looking more attractive.
Ride bikes!!! That’s what we do most of the time, it’s great exercise, fun times together, and it gets everyone out of the car. 🙂
Great idea, but what do your kids ride in? I haven’t been able to find something that seems totally safe when writing a bike with your kids, and almost all of them seem to be made of either plastic or have cushions that probably are treated with flame retardants. So other than carrying your kid in your arms or wearing them in a baby carrier while you ride a bike, which probably isn’t safe, how do you keep them safe on the bike and away from flame retardants and plastics?
Well, I guess it depends on their ages; I was thinking of maybe 3+ and they’d have their own. There are also tandem bikes, which are cool. I’ve seen these really cool bikes lately that are used alot in Holland, they have big wooden boxes attached at the front/rear that the kids sit in! so fun! if I see any infant carriers that look doable, I’ll bring the info here.
Thanks for the Orbit Foam Update. I will check back here to see if there’s a new solution. We’re expecting our first child and your site has been very helpful. Thank you.
Has anyone seen this press release about the Clek Foonf? http://media.clekinc.com/2014/03/07/clek-2014-car-seats-officially-free-of-bromine-and-chlorine-based-flame-retardants-as-per-healthystuff-org/
This is what I found out about Clek – They use a flora based flame retardant. They claim to be free of chlorinated and brominated FRs as Tierney said below. They also don’t use formaldehyde and claim to be lead free. The Foonf is made in Canada with parts sourced from North America (US, Canada, Mexico). The booster seat is made in Mexico with parts sourced from North America as well. The fabric is Crypton that is Greenguard certified, you can look up more info online about Crypton. It is coated with something that makes it spill proof (Crypton doesn’t release what it is but supposedly it’s non-toxic). Generally I stay away from spill proof, anti-bacterial, etc material because of the chemicals used but this does have the Greenguard certification.
What about this site for checking chemicals in car seats? Has anyone used it? http://www.healthystuff.org/get-stuff.php?q=britax
Yes, we use it; However, they only test for a handful of toxic chemicals. It’s a good general guide but only tells part of the picture. They only test for brominated FRs where there are so many more FRs used than that.
Yep. To me, this made me feel that the clek was my best choice. Especially, that it is made in N. America, not china. And to make myself feel better about the fabric I spent the extra few bucks and got the leather one, which doesn’t have ANY chemicals on it. We have it now and my son loves it and I feel that i did the best I could, given my choices. I wish the plastic, well…wasn’t plastic, but what can I do.
I have tried contacting Clek and have sent in emails along with two voicemails. No one is calling me back. Anybody else have this problem?
Weird, I haven’t. Both times I’ve called I’ve reached someone right away. Are you calling during their business hours?
I just bought the Clek, I’m really excited about it. I didn’t even think of spending extra to get the leather…maybe I should have! I called once after business hours and left a message, didn’t get a call back. However, I called this morning and someone answered right away. I asked about the foam. They said it was synthetic but didn’t contain any toxic chemicals.
What fire retardant is the Clek using?
They claim a flora based but won’t give any more details than that.
Im due in 3 weeks and following this issue closely. Any final thoughts on a car seat? I am between Nuna, Diono, Orbit and Clek.
I don’t have a final thought except I wouldn’t buy Orbit or Diono based on the testing that has come out. I liked that Nuna was upfront about the FR they are using and use Oeko-Tek fabric. I like that Clek is made in North America.
Thank you. I dont think I can wait any longer at this point. Ugh! Btw, do you know anything about the flame retardants in 4moms mamaroo/rockaroo bouncers? Thanks
The good thing is that nowadays there are many organic baby item options, from clothing to bassinet sheets. have fun!
You can read about FRs in 4Moms products here: http://organicbabyuniversity.com/blog/2011/08/toxic-flame-retardants-in-children-products-strollers-part-2/
Scroll down to the section entitled “4Moms”
Thanks
I just read through all the comments. I too am looking for a safe choice for my children. I will be following the updates closely because I need to transition my one year old to a toddler seat very soon. So thankful for this blog and all of you who are taking steps to ensure our little ones safety. I was considering getting a Nollie cover until seeing that it takes so incredibly long. Plus if I go with Clek I don’t think they make covers for this brand but I’ll double check.
Doe Nuna only make infant seats?
It looks like is the case
Has anyone tried verifying oeko-tex certification on the oeko-tex website. I didn’t give it a thorough go, but every initial search for “orbit” can back with no results…
My little one is due in 6 weeks and I am looking to find a solution for his carseat! I was going to go with the Nollie covers as I cannot see a downside to it (is there one I am missing?) She has some in the sale section that are apparently already made and ready to ship, however it is not an organic fabric. I am mostly concerned about flame retardants and chemicals, and emailed her whether her covers contain them… she said they don’t, but I was wondering if anyone had any further info on this? Their website doesn’t say anything that I could find addressing this issue. Thanks so much!
She is just using wool and cotton, so no FR’s in her products. Also look at Sassy Stork on Etsy. I need to update my post but Nollie was great pre-sale but after she literally took 2 1/2 months longer than she said she would with no apologizes. It was annoying.
Nollie covers don’t prevent from the off-gassing of the FR used in the styrofoam of the seat though, correct?
Clek finally returned my email, but didn’t answer my question regarding a list of chemicals and FR used. They just said “we do not use any harmful FR.”
I would write them back and ask them what specifically they do use. They should be forthcoming. I get concerned when companies aren’t. It’s funny how companies think that FR aren’t harmful!
My Styrofoam didn’t test for any of the 7 most common FR that Duke tested for. I think that the FR are mostly used in the fabric and foam inside the seat cover.
I would not count on them telling you anything. I personally emailed 25+times to Graco within 6 months trying to figure out what they use. Finally they forwarded my request to their Vice President Legal Affairs Newell Rubbermaid who still did not tell me what it is. All i could get from them was “…We are able to confirm that the model 1877535 is free of all of the current Proposition 65 substances that would commonly be used as a flame retardant substance. We also can confirm that this replacement product is free of other banned flame retardant substances. This includes substances known as: “TCEP, TDCPP, TDBPP, TCOP, TCPP, TPP, TBBPA, PBDE’s, PBB’s, BDBPP”…” I am using Graco car seat now and am waiting for the test results for the clek foonf seat (hopefully someone has sent the sample to Duke).
Olga, can you send a sample of your Graco foam into Duke to be tested? I’d be so curious to see which FRs are found!
Yes, I would love to know too!
I have sent the Graco foam from 3 different areas of the seat and am waiting for the results.
Have you got your results back yet?
No, not yet. and when i asked they told me that few of my foam samples turned up some interesting results and that they are further investigating it. That was last week. In addition to 3 foam samples from the car seat i’ve sent 2 samples from natuzzi recliners so i am not sure which ones have produced these interesting results.
Well keep us posted! 🙂 I’m curious to find out what they found that was interesting – as I’m sure you are too!
I finally got the results back for the Graco seat. All 3 samples had the following result:
“We detected TBEP at greater than 1% by weight in this foam sample. TBEP is not one of the flame retardants we anticipated finding in samples. While it can be used as a flame retardant, it is also a plasticizer and we cannot be certain of why it was added to this foam.”
I am not really sure how bad the TBEP is. If you have any info on it please let me know 🙂
Can you please remind us what three areas of your Graco you had tested?
This is really interesting, thanks for sharing. I think it was added to the foam because it is used as a FR 🙂 I read that it mostly used outside of the US but since pretty much all car seats except Clek are made in China that makes sense. I also read that TBEP is generally more than 1% of weight because of the type of FR. However, I’m not an expert and I really don’t know what all of this means. I don’t know if most FR are less than 1%. Here are a couple of things I read. http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/toxprofiles/tp202-c5.pdf
This link was really interesting, talks about toxicity. It starts on page 22. I skimmed through to almost page 50 and it wasn’t done. However, it was interesting to read the tests done on animals and what happened. http://whqlibdoc.who.int/ehc/WHO_EHC_218.pdf
The samples were: 1.) from the foam attached to the cover fabric; 2.) from the foam insert in the baby padding/cushions; 3.) from the foam insert in the upper part of the seat where a child’s head would be.
Again, I really appreciate you updating us. I’m in the process of re-reading all the comments and making notes. I am going to update the blog with everything I know and everything you all have shared so all information is in one place. However, I’ve already spent quite a bit of time on it so it might take me until the end of the weekend to get it all together. Up until this point we didn’t have much on Graco so I’m glad to have this info!
I found out from a fabric store that all fabrics contain chemicals applied to them. 🙁
So…the only way to make sure that what you are buying doesn’t is if the product is organic or they verify the fabric is a natural wool with no added chemicals. Anyone have different info?
Sent from my iPhone
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I think most have formaldehyde and possibly other chemicals. GOTS certified organic cotton doesn’t. It’s the highest standard when it comes to making sure toxic chemicals aren’t in clothing / fabric. I love Birch fabrics. They are expensive but really cool and beautiful!
Sadly, even organic cotton can have toxic chemicals added to it. The industry is just crazy. When my son was born I was buying anything organic until I realized that not all organic is created equal. Now I just buy GOTS certified, used if possible, and if I can’t buy used then I buy new.
For wool, I agree, the owner would just need to verify that there are no added chemicals but ask lots of questions.
Where do you find used GOTS clothes? I’d be wary of trying to find them on my own and receive something that wasn’t GOTS…
As far as wool, I spoke with my neighbor, who spins and knits with her own wool, and she noted that even if chemicals aren’t used on the wool after it’s sheared, there still may be chemicals that were used on or in the sheep that would be in the wool anyway. Hopefully, this is not as true with organic, but one can’t be sure, I guess.
good point. yet another thing to consider. 🙁
I finally finished my two part clothing post. It took me a lot longer than I had thought it would! http://naturalbabymama.wordpress.com/2014/06/01/is-organic-clothing-worth-it-organic-versus-non-organic-cotton-and-other-fibers/
It is true, pesticides can be sprayed on the sheep (which is awful) just like conventional cotton.
I’ve been meaning to do a clothing post so I’ll try and do that tonight and then share the link with the companies I buy clothes from 🙂
naturalbabymama, In re to the GOTS cert baby clothes, which brands/sites do you recommend? My son is 14 months but he is tall so i buy for 24+months.
I read this ENTIRE comment thread. So frustrating. I am expecting in June/July 2014 and am so happy to find more current/up to date info on these products. I totally agree with one mother that said she’s on a shoe-string budget but buying the safest/least toxic products are important to her that she went with the OrbitBaby Seat – and how infuriating it is when the cost for it is easily 2-3x of other seats to find out it has the same darn issues/chemicals. Anyhow, I’m leaning towards the Nuna Pipa infant car seat (as it seems to be the front runner here) – and perhaps next year when I need a toddler seat will re-assess, looking heavily on the Clek. I like that it’s allows rear-facing for longer. Unfortunately Clek doesn’t make an infant seat and Nuna doesn’t make a toddler seat… I’m also looking at stroller and travel crib options. I am liking the Mountain Buggy Swift Stroller (brand suggested by naturalbabymama) but am not finding any language on their site that CLEARLY states no FR/chemicals. Has anyone looked at the Nuna Pepp Stroller (cheaper thatn the Mountain Buggy) which touts “plush, cushy, healthier for baby certified Oeko-Tex® fabric”? Or the Nuna SENA (travel crib) also w/ Oeko-Tex® fabric?
Update: I called Nuna and the customer service rep reported:
~Nuna Pippa car seat: They use ammonium polyphosphate as the chemical flame retardant per federal requirements in the Pippa car seat. Fabric is certified Oeko-Tex® fabric.
~Nuna Sena travel crib: As of *ONLY RECENTLY* They do NOT use chemical flame retardants on the travel crib. The rep said to order from them direct and contact them after ordering with your order number to specify that we want the crib from the newest shipment/warehouse that is made without chemical Flame Retardants. Fabric is certified Oeko-Tex® fabric.
~Nuna Pepp Stroller: NO chemical flame retardants on the stroller. Fabric is certified Oeko-Tex® fabric.
Thank you for the update! That is good to know. They do use FR on their swing. Hopefully, as a company, they are moving to non FR wherever possible.
So how bad is ammonium polyphosphate as an FR in the grand scheme of FR’s?
Thank you so much all everyone’s hard work with this!
I don’t like any FRs but I think this one is better than a lot of them.. If you go up in the comments I posted more info on ammonium polyphosphate and what it does.
Cant wait to read your organic clothes/fabric post!
Here it is finally 🙂 http://naturalbabymama.wordpress.com/2014/06/01/is-organic-clothing-worth-it-organic-versus-non-organic-cotton-and-other-fibers/
Here are my results from Duke. I’m the one who spoke with 4+ Diono employees, including their Chief Safety Officer Alana Pinkerton, over the course of several weeks last August/Sept. I specifically called about FRs and pressed on the issue, asked so many different questions and was unequivocally told that Storm and Rugby have no chemical FRs whatsoever because both fabric AND FOAM are inherently flame retardant. I am going to contact Ms. Pinkerton tomorrow and see what she has to say now…
Sample number: 277a [inside/underneath fabric]
Product type: Child car seat
Brand: Diono
Result: We detected TCPP in this sample.
Sample number: 277b [small yellow insert in bottom of seat, just extra padding, I just removed it based on these results]
Product type: Child car seat
Brand: Diono
Result: We detected TCPP and TDCPP in this sample.
Sample number: 277c [I also submitted the styrofoam on the plastic frame]
Product type: Child car seat
Brand: Diono
Result: This sample was Styrofoam and we were unable to test it.
Sample number: 278
Product type: Sofa
Brand: Vanguard Furniture
Result: We detected Firemaster550 in this sample.
Sample number: 279
Product type: Sofa [old sofa from my husband’s parents]
Brand: Unknown
Result: No flame retardants detected.
Sample number: 280
Product type: Rocking chair
Brand: Little Castle
Result: No flame retardants detected.
[I was so pleasantly surprised about this, though I think it must have some sort of FRs… just not those they were testing for??]
Thanks you so much for sharing your results. When I saw this I was disappointed – as I’m sure you were too! Did they ever get back to you??
Thank you for your blog! I am so dismayed at these findings but not surprised! I had been in the market for a convertible seat 2 months ago and read your blog and decided to buy the orbit G3 with reservations. When it arrived, my husband took it out in the living room to look at it, and I had an immediate allergic reaction to it (I have severe chemical sensitivities). Not to mention for such a high price some of the functionality is incredibly cheap (i.e. the level adjustment). So the next day it was sent back to the retailer! I have to say considering my reaction to it I’m not at all surprised to read your blog now and and find out it has the bad FR’s. But it is very sad and unethical that they would dupe the public in this way.
Per a friend’s recommendation we went with the Maxi Cosi. My husband took it out of the box outside this time, so I didn’t have the chance to have an acute reaction to it like the orbit, but it still gives me anxiety to think about the FR’s, and maybe its psycho somatic, but I feel like I have a reaction in the car and almost always try to change my clothes and my baby’s clothes after outings (which is not leaving a light laundry footprint!) I’ve also been trying to limit cart trips but it’s getting harder and harder as my LO is getting bigger and we live in the burbs. I was wondering if anyone else has experience with the Pria. I’ve read that it contains “minimal” BFR’s but what does that mean???
I was actually starting to think about getting a Diono and was looking again for info when I came across your blog again. So sad to think that they were also misrepresenting their non-toxic footprint.
Also, just today a neighbor offered a used britax car seat, but I’m a little uncertain as to the toxicity of used car seats – does anyone know if they are less toxic?
Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. Britax is one of the worst for FRs. They just now are no longer using brominated FRs. I would pass on the used Britax if it was me.
Has everyone seen the “reply” Orbit posted? http://www.orbitbaby.com/en/support/foam-testing/
Question 1: If Orbit gradually changed over the G2 series to using foam that was no longer certified by Oeko-Tex, then why did they continue to advertise the entire G2 product line as have Oeko-Tex certified foam, even after it wasn’t?
Question 2: While Duke does not guaranty their results, isn’t there a law firm in California that has independent testing done that came up with the same results?
That being said, I am awaiting my Duke University test results. If they test positive for Tris, I will be seeking to have another test run by a lab that does guaranty their results. Does anyone know of one? I can contact the firm in California to see if they can recommend one, but if you also know of one, please advise.
I already offered to let Orbit buy my carseat back and they declined. Let’s hope it comes up clean then.
Have you received your test results back yet? I have reached out to that law firm in CA and haven’t heard back. I called and emailed them 2+ weeks ago.
Orbit should not have legally said that their foam was Oeko-Tek certified when they were phasing out / not all of it was. I think they are pretty concerned about the issue that they have on hand right now.
No, I have not yet received my test results. As recently as a couple of weeks ago, Orbit still had information on its website claiming that all G2 products had certified foam. I have printed and saved that information.
Good, I printed off that info and saved it too!
Heavens123, The Chanler group found TDCPP in the G2 orbit baby carrier.
They have offices in different states, including CA:
https://www.chanler.com/notices/archive/ergo-baby-carrier-inc-orbit-baby-inc
https://www.chanler.com/our-firm/our-offices
Hi
We bought the Orbit car seat (toddler size) last year. Does that mean it has Tris? I am so confused and dismayed by all of this and have no idea what to do. What was Orbit’s reply? The link didn’t work…how do we know what was found in Duke’s study didn’t come from the car seat being exposed to the fire retardants in the foam of cars???
It means that it could. Apparently they started phasing out of their Oeko-Tek foam sometime in mid 2012. Mine tested positive for it. I doubt that what they were testing came from the FRs in the car. There are other car seats out there that aren’t testing positive for Tris (like Clek).
Thank you, they seem to have an office in my area. I am still awaiting my test results. I am wondering since the legal document stated it was a 60 day notice, where it stands now as it is long past 60 days. I’m also wondering why it is specifically only dealing with a Proposition 65 warning and not with the fact that Orbit specifically states that they do not use Tris.
Was this only for the G2 or all Orbit products? I have the G3 and just send the foam out for testing.
As of a few weeks ago, there was still info on the Orbit website stating that the G2 series had both foam and fabric certified by Oeko-Tex. Additionally, Orbit continues to claim no Tris in any of its product lines, backed up by rigorous third party testing.
The G3 most likely has the new foam since they started phasing out with the G2.
They also don’t have a prop 65 warning on their car seats though. I think these are two different cases. Maybe I’ll call them again this week and see if they just aren’t interested or maybe they are already pursing it.
Thank you everyone for all this information. I have been dragging my feet for months deciding on a stroller and convertible seat. I am so thankful that I stumbled on this post because I was planning to purchase a Diono or Britax car seat!
I’ve pretty much given up on getting an infant car seat or stroller that is FR-free, but I do want to try to place some kind of barrier between the car seat/stroller and my baby-to-be. On this note, I wanted your take on Lamby’s Sheepskin car seat/stroller liner (http://www.lamby.com/product%20list/stroller.htm). The website says it is all natural, medical quality, and naturally flame resistant.
One thing that worries me a bit is how it is first treated. On the FAQ page (http://www.lamby.com/questions.htm) they state:
“HYGIENE: Mothers may ask “Is it hygienic?” Lamby lambskins are first washed for several hours in a vat. After drying they are placed in an automatic machine where they are alternately soaked and washed in a biodegradable solution for 24 hours. They are re-washed and, after they have been clipped and brushed, they are dry-cleaned. Lamby, as an added precaution, adds a biodegradable agent to the wash prior to packaging to prevent any bacterial growth. YES, LAMBY IS HYGIENIC!”
I like the idea that it can be used in both the car seat and the stroller, making it more versatile and economical than other liners. Please let me know your thoughts when you have the chance. Thank you!!!
I would call to find out what the biodegradable agent is. It’s hard to know without knowing what it is they are using.
I’m wondering, can any fabric actually protect your child from exposure to flame retardants? In situations where the fabric is the only barrier between your child and the flame retardant, does that actually provide any protection from FRs? I find it hard to totally understand how fire retardants end up in our system; I’ve read that very fine particles come off and end up in the dust and we breathe them in. Can those fine particles make it through the fabric?
Yes, sadly they make it though fabric. This is how FRs get out of couches and why if you have a couch with FRs you should wet mop to keep it from going into the air again.
Thank you for writing this very helpful blog and thank you to all of you who sent in foam samples!
I am going to buy the Nuna Pipa. Reading this chapter in a toxicology book helped me feel a little better about the ammonium polyphosphate (I’m not a scientist):
http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=9841&page=273
If the Clek Foonf is a less toxic option I will try to buy that next. Is leather really less likely to be treated?
Yes, the more I have read about ammonium polyphosphate (while I still don’t love it) I think it is one of the better FRs.
I hope we get some results from someone about the Clek. I would love to know.
As I replied to someone earlier tonight, I would imagine that leather isn’t treated with FRs. It doesn’t seem to me like it would burn very fast. However, the tanning process can be toxic (not always though). I would just find out if they tan the leather with formaldehyde and or chromium.
I have been following the comments on Car Seats and I must say there are some really smart moms out there:) But then I wondered if they are protecting their babies from Electromagnetic Radiation too. In our house we have taken out the microwave and wi-fi. Cell phones are in air plane mode in the house at all times. The Bio Initiative report has stated along with Dr. Oz that children’s immune system and skulls are not strong enough to protect themselves. In short it alters DNA, melatonin levels, and they are carcinogens. Smart Moms out there please do your research. A really good documentary is “Resonance – Beings of frequency”. Keep up the good work!
EMFs are really interesting to me. I definitely try and limit it but it’s on my list of things to learn more about. I will check out the documentary you mentioned. We don’t use our microwave ever, I disabled our Wi-Fi and just use a direct connection to the internet. Our phones go in our office when we are home, but putting them on airplane mode or just shutting them off is a good idea! I think EMFs are a really big deal and I do agree that children’s skulls are not strong enough to filter them out.
So, I’m sure my Chicco Keyfit is a chemical pit. I’ll send in a sample to be sure, but I already know it’s going to be scary… As for Nuna, I did want to add that their Leafs recently came out with no polyurethane foam (recently like April/May 2014). I didn’t realize that the covers had PF, and I emailed the company. They told me they would exchange my cover/insert for one without chemicals, and I just received the new one last week – it doesn’t appear to contain any foam. Just “resinated polyester fabric”. Gotta look into that, but thrilled that they’re not using FR. Thought this might be the same story for some of their other products, though I’m not sure….
Thanks so much to everyone who posted here- it’s been super educational. I look forward to hearing the results of more tests, and I’ll post mine as well.
Good to know! Thanks for sharing.
Also, realize this is a bit duplicative of what others wrote, but I emailed Clek about exactly which FR they use (since they do use some) and this was the response:
“Unfortunately we do not know that exact fire retardants that are used and only know of the ones we do not use that are harmful.
All of our components must also comply with the restricted substances covered in the Global Automotive Declarable Substances List, Washington State RCW 70.240.020, US CFR TITLE 16 Part 1303 and US CPSIA Section 101a.
The partnership we have with Crypton Super Fabrics is one we formed mainly due to their ecological approach and the performance of the products. The fabrics repel moisture, bacteria and stains and contain no formaldehyde. The fabric uses a fluoro-based chemistry opposed to bromine or chlorine. You can find more detailed information on their products by downloading their Green Guides here: http://www.cryptonfabric.com/. Crypton fabrics are also Green Guard Select Certified.”
I have the Summer Infant Fuze Stroller (100% Polyester Fiber) and Summer Infant Prodigy Infant Car Seat (14% Polyurethane Foam & 86% Polyester Fiber). They were both manufactured in mid-2013 and have the TB117 tag on them. I have been emailing Summer Infant for months to find out about FRs, but never received a response. So, today I called and the person I spoke with said that no FRs are used in either product. Is that possible? Would their products have complied with TB117 in mid-2013 without using FRs on the polyurethane foam? Are there other/better questions I should be asking? On one hand, I want to believe them and on the other, I don’t. Any suggestions? Thanks!
Personally, I’d be shocked if Summer Infant had no FRs. I’ve had terrible luck with several of their products; they’re rife with chemicals, bad plastics, and formaldehyde.
Thanks for letting us know your experience. I don’t know anything about Summer Infant. I would call back and ask the same question again and see if you get a different answer. If you don’t, I would ask how they comply with TB117 without the use of FRs, does the foam manufacturer use FRs, do they use formaldehyde (which it looks like they do), BPA, phthalates, lead.
The stroller might be ok from a FR standpoint, polyester just melts so there really might not be any FRs in it. However, the foam in the Prodigy would be concerning for me.
I am now going to have to go ahead and get a convertible carseat, so I’d like some ideas on how to get the least toxic one. The only way I can think to get one without fire retardants is to buy one and then buy a separate cover. The covers are expensive, but since I won’t be spending tons of money on Orbit, I think I can pull it off for the same price, and probably less. That being said, there seem to be covers for only certain models available, unless you order custom and I can’t wait 8 weeks. Does using a replacement cover automaticaly void the warranty? Does it hinder the safety or is it only cosmetic? Apart from the cover, are there other areas in the carseat where the FRs are present? I’d like any and all ideas for product combinations that I can put together that will 1) retain the same level of safety, 2) have no fire retardants, finishes, lead, pvc or other crap and 3) among the options, pick the most economical one as I am on a budget (but feel strongly enough about this to make sure there are no FRs.)
I think this makes total sense. Check out Sassy Stork on Etsy to see what covers she makes. My understanding is that it is just the poly form (soft foam) that has FRs. I would call and make sure about the Styrofoam though. I would then figure out what covers are available then start your search from there on car seat. I still think Clek is a good option or Diono if you aren’t going to be using the cover. If you use a cover it will void your warranty. Using a cover is a totally personal decision. I decided to get a cover because of the chemicals used (and this was before I knew that Orbit was testing for Tris!). Some people say you should never add items to car seats (including covers) because it alters the seat and makes it less safe. When I made my decision it made no sense to me that replacing the cover, that has nothing to do with the structural components of the car seat, ,made it less safe. It didn’t seem like a risk to me, but again my decision for my family. Generally FRs are in the cover. However, some have tested on the base but it’s not common.
I’m thinking exactly what you’re thinking. Sell the Orbit, with the money saved just buy a standard car seat and replace the cover with organic fabric and filling. That’s what I’m really looking at doing right now, Sassy Stork (Kate) responded very quickly to my inquiries, which is so very nice. Is that what you ended up going for Heavens 123?
I’m having to buy an infant car seat, rather than convertible, so our options are probably different– I’ve got the standard Target options of Britax, Chicco Keyfit, Graco, etc. It sounds like as long as I replace the full cover (and foam/stuffing) then they’re all the same. Is that an accurate assumption or do folks think that some of the bases/plastic frames of these brands are problematic too?
In my opinion, I would still not trust a “standard” company with overall bad scores. it’s not just the cover that’s a problem but the foam as well. In my searches I think I’m most comfortable with the quality and safety of the clek, which has the foonf for new ones. The seat I purchased also had the option of leather, which eliminates the need for a new cover. Just my observations.
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But the foam is within the cover. When you remove the car seat cover you remove the foam. The Styrofoam that is attached to the car seat (at least it is with the Orbit) isn’t treated because it’s not flammable.
Ahhhhh….I guess it depends on the carseat. Mine isn’t a part of the cover, but a separate piece altogether.
Good point, I’ve only physically had 2 car seats and I’m sure different brands make them differently. You have the Clek, right?
Actually, I have the Britax and the Clek. The Britax was before I knew it was so bad and I’m in the process of trying to sell it and just keep the Clek. I have the leather booster, so I don’t have to worry about the fabric chemicals or foam. Thankfully.
Why does the leather elminate the need for a cover? Is it just that the leather is so impermeable the foam underneath poses no risk because it doesn’t migrate through as it does with fabric?
In my opinion, I think yes. And also, one of the main reasons behind a cover is to protect the baby from skin contact with the chemically coated fabric on the seat. With the leather seat, you don’t have that worry, as the chemicals are not needed on leather.
But aren’t chemicals used to “make” the leather and/or give it certain properties (softness, waterproof, durability, etc)? Are those toxic?
Leather has its own set of chemicals. And as in all foam seating products, when you sit down, the air in the foam usually has to vent somewhere, whether its going to come out through the fabric or via the seams. I can’t imagine why a leather seat would prevent fire retardants from migrating.
Leather does have it’s own set of checmicals used to tan it. Sometimes it can be done naturally – like vegetable tanning. Most of the time formaldehyde and chrome is used. Chrome is very toxic and most leather is tanned this way. I was just reading something that says on average 250 chemicals are used to tan traditional leather. If you want to read more about the exposure workers are experiencing working in a leather tanning factory read this http://www.theecologist.org/News/news_analysis/1651375/toxic_chemicals_used_for_leather_production_poisoning_indias_tannery_workers.html.
Leather isn’t just tanned in India though, in the U.S. tanning is still done and sometimes it is vegetable tanning. I buy a cute shoe for my son and I that’s handmade in Oregon using natural, eco-friendly tanning methods (softstarshoes.com). Since there doesn’t seem to be a better choice right now, and I’ve already bought it, I’m hoping that the method Clek used for the carseat is just as safe; they do seem to be trying with the other features. Not much else i can do.
Yes, it isn’t just done in India – that was just an example. It is done all over the world. I totally buy Soft Star shoes too (and love them). I buy the vege tanned leather which is tanned in Germany. There are def some safe options out there but a majority (like 80%+ is done using not safe methods). I have no idea what Clek does but I agree they do seem like a responsible company 🙂
I know the process to tan leather can be v v toxic, but I somehow thought the leather itself wouldn’t necessarily retain all those chemicals…argh. often, knowing too much makes things so difficult! i still think i’ll opt for the leather booster (can’t afford the leather foonf though) over fabric, it seems instinctively like a better option, even if it’s not.
Wouldn’t FRs migrate more slowly, at least, through leather, since it’s less permeable than fabric? (to my understanding)
I opted not to buy a cover and replace the carseat. Number one priority is safety in a car crash. Number two is low or no toxicity. When crash tests are done to rate whether or not a car seat is safe and whether or not it passes standards, it’s done with the original equipment and original foam. I’m not convinced that replacing foam of the specific depth and density that passed specifications with wool or cotton batting of a different density is an even trade. I use almost no polyurethane foam at home and use wool, cotton and latex instead. I am aware of them having different properties and while perhaps latex retains it’s cushioning and bounce, wool and cotton certainly do compress. You can have wool recarded or replaced to regain it’s loft, but it does compress. How would that fare in a car crash in conjunction with the other materials used in the car seat? The shell is the first line protection, but if your little one slams into that shell, will wool be enough padding to prevent injury. I don’t know and I don’t want to find out. I opted to select a carseat for use without replacing the padding. That being said, I may get some kind of cover just for cleanliness, but I will not be relying upon that cover for crash protection.
You make good points; however, I will say that when I was talking with Diono their rep told me multiple times I can just remove the polyurethane foam in the fabric if I was so concerned about FRs. She said it is just there for comfort and doesn’t have to do with safety. If that’s something somebody wants to do I would definitely check with the company again before doing that. With all that being said, I wouldn’t personally remove it and not replace it with something. I feel that the safety features come from the base itself as well as the Styrofoam and harness. My car seat cover hasn’t compressed or become weird / lumpy at all after 9 months of use. BUT each person has to make a decision that they are comfortable with for their family. There is no right decision for everybody.
heavens123, supposedly using a cover of any kind over a car seat renders it unsafe – car seats for the littles strenously opposes this! just letting you know that since your priority is keeping the seat as safe/effective as it was during crash testing, you should avoid any cover at all over the seat.
What about Maxi-Cosi leather?
Sorry, I wish I knew something about it but I don’t.
If they didn’t use solid gasoline for their foam, they wouldn’t need so much FR. I’m so frustrated that I have no choice in the matter.
Agreed! They could use wool and this entire issue would be solved.
I read somewhere someone removed the foam from the car seat, and replaced it with cotton/wool batting for comfort and natural FR. I also bought a Orbit toddler seat in 2012 thinking it would be the best option–for the bucket seat I used Chicco Keyfit 30 with a Bokoo organic cover (I sold the seat, kept the cover). Now I’m due with baby two in a few months and need to make a decision. A friend gave me her 2012 Graco Snugride 30 and it only has one thin piece of foam on the back (does not seem that comfy!). I washed the covers–mostly polyester but I don’t know if they were treatd with FR or not–in degreasing dish soap and lots of detergent/hot water. I do not know if the Graco seat has FR in the styrofoam or the hard black plastic etc. It seems like if you can find a base/hard foam/harness that is relatively toxin free and feel OK about just tearing that FR soaked cushy foam out/replacing with wool or whatever–and using a seat that doesn’t have it in there along with a cover….is this an acceptable option? I am toying with the idea now.
Sorry for the delay in getting back to you! You probably read that on my blog 🙂 I removed the entire car seat cover with the foam and bought a replacement cover from Nollie Covers. There are a couple of other places that sell covers but I believe Nollie Covers is the only one that makes covers for Orbit. They are expensive and they take longer than she says they will to make – just an fyi :). Replacing the cover on your car seat will void your warranty. I am not recommending people to do that, each person has to decide for themselves what they want to do. Some people feel and the car seat companies will tell you that it is a safety issue and will make the car seat less safe. I personally decided that replacing the cover was fine for my family (I didn’t see how it made it less safe).
The Graco cover is treated with FR. They all are. Washing them isn’t going to help. I washed my Orbit cover probably close to 10 times and it still showed up testing positive for Tris from Duke.
From everything I understand about Orbit, it’s just the cover and foam in the cover that has FR. I don’t know if that is true for every car seat on the market. Take a look at Sassy Stork on Esty, she may have covers to fit Graco or see if you can find a Chicco or buy a new one and use your old cover.
Good luck!
Thanks that’s interesting. So you managed to replace the ENTIRE cover–because the Bokoo cover I bought for my Keyfit was just a cover meant to go over the original cover, and not an entire cover replacement. I am totally comfortable with replacing the entire cover and ripping out the foam in the back/seat of the base.
Yes, mine replaced the entire cover. I believe Sassy Stork is meant just to go over your existing one but I know people that have use it to replace.
So, I read through all these comments last week – perhaps this is duplicative, but hopefully informative in some way. I had emailed Diono about their FR, specifically because I heard some newer models don’t use FR. This is the response I received:
“All Diono products (car seats, boosters and travel accessories) comply with US, European and Canadian regulations regarding toxic substances such as phthalates, bromides, formaldehyde, bisphenol-A (BPA), cadmium and lead. Our car seats feature a proprietary flame-retardant process which independent testing has consistently rated very well in terms of low toxicity and out-gassing, yet we are always looking for ways to improve. Our RadianR series seats feature some covers (‘Storm’ and ‘Rugby)’ made with a new micro-mesh velour fabric that is flame retardant without requiring any added chemical treatment process. The Radian R series are the Radian RXT, R120 and R100.
In meeting all the North American and European standards that we do, that means our seats do NOT contain traceable amounts of these chemicals, BPA, Phthalates, chlorine or lead.
They do not contain any material that has been bleached and we use a non-brominated flame retardant treatment. The seats do not contain any genetically modified organic material and all are AZO-free dyes. They do not contain any formaldehyde, PVC, heavy metals, triclosan, microban, nonylphenol ethoxolates.”
Oh – I emailed them to ask if there are FR in the padding of those two types (Storm & Rugby). I should have waited to post the whole response. Anyway, I’ll let you know what they say.
Yes, please let us know what they say because their foam is testing positive for Tris from samples sent into Duke.
Ok, so, I asked if the foam contains FR, and I was told: “Our memory foam does not have FR.” Then, I asked if the Storm and Rugby models contain ANY FR because they made it sound like the memory foam does not, but I was wondering if there was other foam in the carseat that might contain FR. This was the response (from Anissa at Diorno):
“The Storm and the Rugby do not contain flame retardants. The type of fabric that it is it didnt need it as it passed regulations. The memory foam does not contain FR. The EPS foam that is used is for energy absorbant. Unlike some foams which can degrade and flake, EPS foam can take (literally) hundreds of years to biodegrade which is why it is a great material for insulation. The chemical is inert, stabile and resistant to degradation. It is recyclable which is good for the environment.”
This is what Diono keeps telling people but several Diono Rugby or Storm car seats have been tested by Duke and they are showing Tris.
Diono has a history of telling different things to different people. I was told that both that the Rugby and Storm didn’t have FR in their foam multiple times then I was also told after calling again that it did. I don’t know what to think of Diono, they seem to have a lot of confusion within the company.
Hi, thank you for sharing your research with us. I want to get a healthy convertible for my baby but I’m overwhelmed by contradicting info. So I have 2 questions for you: how do you get your carseat tested and what do you think about getting an Orbit convertible and then buying an organic cover?
I’ve overwhelmed by it too so you are not alone 🙂 Duke University is testing products for free right now. You can use this link to submit up to 5 samples. They close for the month after they have received 50 samples then they open back up at the 1st of the month again. I’m not sure how long they are doing this for though. http://foam.pratt.duke.edu/how-submit-sample
That is what I did, bought the Orbit and bought an organic cover. It’s a really expensive option though. If Orbit does have Tris like it has been tested positive for then you might as well get a less expensive car seat and then do a replacement cover – just my two cents 🙂
That’s true but I don’t know if the other brands have their Stryofoam as clean as the one from Orbit. Do you know of anyone who tested Stryofoam from Britax for example?
I don’t. From what I understand, and I could be wrong, but you don’t need to treat Styrofoam. I asked Orbit what they treated in the seat and she said the foam inside the fabric. I personally think Brittax is doing some tricky marketing right now. I would consider Orbit, Diono or Clek if you are going to do a cover.
I called BRITAX yesterday and they told me their carseats definitively have flame retardants, even though they have been advertising efforts to reduce their use. Also do you know how valid is the ranking by HealthyStuff.org (2008)?
Yes, they definitely do. They are doing a good marketing campaign right now but all they are saying is that they are going to stop using the really bad FRs. They don’t say that they are not going to stop using them. Britax is one of the worse.
2008 is a long time ago and things have changed with each company I’m sure. It’s hard to base anything off of that study but you can use it as a guideline. However, at that test HS only tested for bromine and not any other FRs including Tris. They are retesting this summer and are doing a fundraising campaign to make it happen. I just did a blog post on it and I am encouraging everyone to contribute something. It will create transparency and make choosing a car seat much easier going forward.
Have you looked at Nuna Pipa? They also have Oeko Tex fabrics like Orbit and are less expensive and say this about their FR–which is supposed to be lower in toxicity but I have no idea.: The Nuna Pipa fire retardant chemicals belong to the category of ammonium polyphosphate
Yes, Nuna is talked about a lot in the comments. Only the fabric is Oeko-Tek certified and you are correct about the type of FR. I think it’s probably the best option out there for an infant seat if you aren’t replacing the cover like you were possibly talking about.
I just got this back from Nuna–probably the same thing you received? It is our goal at Nuna to minimize the amount of foreign substances in our products, while still complying with strict state and federal standards. This is why our products are made with better for baby materials such as certified Oeko-tex® fabric and fiber fill and meet standards such as CPSIA, EN71 and REACH.
Fire retardants used to be required under California TB 117. However, there have been recent changes to the law which allow us to remove fire retardants from all Nuna products, except for the PIPA car seat which is under different governing law FMVSS302 for the car industry interior flammability requirement. The current production models of our LEAF, LEAV CURV, PEPP, SENA, SENA MINI and ZAAZ are fire retardant free. Units manufactured prior to January 1, 2014 may still include minimum fire retardants in compliance with California TB 117.
The current flame retardant that we use in the Pipa is from the ammonium polyphosphate category which is not prohibited by any Cal. Prop. 65, CPSIA or ASTM requirement.
Our products are manufactured in a green factory, which is certified ISO 14001, ISO 9001 and OHSAS 18001.
Another reply from them: I will have to confirm this, but I believe that all of the softgoods of the Pipa have to be treated with some FR due to the federal regulations. Please remember that even with the treated fabric & fiberfill, the Pipa softgoods are Oeko-Tex Certified. The plastic base & frame of the Pipa would not be treated with FR.
If you want me to confirm this with the factory, let me know & I’ll be glad to do that for you.
I will post a follow up reply from them. I asked for them to specify if the cover is treated as well, and if so, is the FR they use on the Oeko-Tex certified list, as some FR are actually Oeko-Tex approved. Since from what I understand about the FR they use it is mostly inert/”harmless”. I wonder why other companies didn’t use this stuff to begin with (if it turns out to indeed be that much better than the halogenated FRs). Must be a cost issue.
I love the Clek convertible but they don’t seem to have any info about their covers and I’m afraid that it’s hard to make a replacement cover. I don’t understand how you can charge as much as 800$ for a seat and not offer an organic option.
I have the clek foonf, and I am an avid sewer. I cannot see how the cover would come off or would easily be replaced. Everything is very tight in there, too – where the buckle and straps are – so would leave very small margin for error.
Thanks for the comment. Now that you say that it jogged my memory to the one time I saw a Clek in the store and you are right. There is no way to replace the cover. It is sewn right into the seat. Other car seats have a cover that is slipped over the car seat base. Thanks again!
I have followed this blog for some time now. Thank you so much for all of this wonderful information! I am leaning towards the Nuna Pipa for my infant.
Here was my conversation with Nuna:
Theresa Ricker
Spring, United States
May 28, 2014 at 0:03am
I would like information about the flame retardants and other harmful chemicals in your products. I have a newborn and a toddler and I am in search of a new car seat, stroller, and travel crib. I want something free of harmful chemicals. Can I custom order your products? My children are very sensitive to these chemicals and I am having trouble finding something that meets our needs.
Customer Service
May 28, 2014 at 8:50am
Hi Theresa,
Our stroller & recent production models of our travel crib do not have any flame retardants.
Because of current federal regulations, our car seat is required to have them.
In order to ensure a recent production model of our travel crib, we request that you either place your order directly with us by calling 855-686-2872 or place an order on our website and call us with your order number. We can then ensure that the warehouse pulls a most recent production model without FR.
If you would like to call & discuss, please feel free to do so.
Betty
They seem very willing to answer questions which is really nice. I am so torn about a car seat. My children are suffering from eczema among other things, and I know it is aggravated by all of these chemicals. So frustrating! Change.org has a petition you can sign to eliminate FRs from car seats. Seems like a good website. I am leaning towards Nuna products, but I need a toddler seat as well. I can sew so I could try to do a cover myself. I have a chicco key fit 30 right now. I bought it thinking it was the perfect solution after reading healthystuff.org. I wish I would have found your blog before I bought it! Would a cover be a good enough solution? Any thoughts on that? Thanks
I have signed that petition! I hope something changes. I do like how transparent Nuna is and I do think it is the best infant seat option on the market right now. I think a cover would be fine for the keyfit though. They all have FRs, and a cover is your best way to eliminate exposure in my opinion but again it voids your warranty and some people say it can make it less safe. It’s a personal decision you have to make about a car seat cover. If you do get a cover I would make sure it fits snug. I can sew some but I didn’t feel comfortable making a cover. I decided to leave that to the people who make them all the time and know how to make one to fit each seat.
Since you are looking for travel cribs as well, I just wanted to tell you that the Nuna Sena and BabyBjorn travel cribs have some polyurethane (PU) in their mattress (if you are interested I can post their entire reply to my inquiries). Even thought both companies reassured me their new models have flame retardant-free mattresses, I’m still concerned about PU off-gassing during my baby’s sleep, so I’m planning on using BabeSafe plastic to wrap-up the mattress. I contacted Naturepedic and they don’t custom-make mattresses for foldable cribs 🙁
Could someone please explain to me how replacing the cover can block the FR chemicals from the foam? It seems like the vapors would seep through. IDK…just a thought.
The foam is inside the cover. When you replace the cover you are also replacing the poly foam inside of it.
Hello, I have been following your blog throughout my pregnancy and appreciate all your research. At this point my head is spinning. It is so difficult to find products without some sort of chemical. I was set on the orbit and relieved there was one pure product out there and was devastated by the recent events. I am due in 3 weeks so I decided on the Nuna Pipa. Im still concerned because I know it does contain flame retardants but cant find a better option.
I was wondering what you suggest for a stroller? I know the baby jogger is a great non toxic option but it is a little bulkier than I had wanted. I contacted Uppababy and was told YES their products do contain flame retardants. Disappointing news because I had read that they do not. I also contacted bugaboo and was told their strollers do NOT contain flame retardants. They did however say the bassinet mattress is made from polyester and polyurethane foam. I would love to know your thoughts on this? Lastly, how do you feel about the lifekind latex and wool mattress. I am torn between naturepedic and lifekind. I have read the cons of the naturepedic but do like that they are latex and wool free due to allergy concerns. Thank you again for this blog and all the informative info!
I agree, I think the Nuna is your best option. Orbit (when we thought it was Oeko-Tek foam) still contained FR but Oeko-Tek (deemed less toxic) FRs. Just only use it when necessary and you’ll be fine. It’s the best we can do with the car seat choices given.
I believe Uppababy is in a similar situation about being Oeko-Tek and using Oeko-Tek FR but I will reach out to them and see what is going on (and update my blog if needed). Strollers are a hard one. That’s why I decided to carry my son until I couldn’t physically do it anymore. I love my organic Ergo. Now that he is almost 2 1/2 we do use the stroller when going to the park. I wish there was a better option. I haven’t reached out to CityMini – maybe try and see if they use FRs?
I don’t own the Lifekind, I bought our latex and wool mattress from Soaring Heart and I love mine. We have a latex topper. I just was emailed by Naturepedic and literally just updated my blog. When I wrote that post it was at the beginning of me learning about things. Naturepedic does not use fiberglass (which I had mentioned I never verified but 2 different people and 2 different mattresses stores told me for some reason). Anyways, their mattresses are GOTS certified. I would feel 100% comfortable about getting the quilted one we got (non-waterproof). Wool, organic and untreated, is very rare to have an allergic reaction. In most people that have reactions it is from the chemicals used in the wool.
I’m surprised to hear you say that shopping for strollers was challenging. I’ve been looking into flame retardant-free strollers, and there seem to be many, many brands on the market that are flame retardant-free. I’ve been using the information at Organic Baby University (http://organicbabyuniversity.com/blog/2011/07/toxic-flame-retardants-in-your-home-strollers-part-1/), which was originally written in 2011, but seems to be updated regularly.
Another option, which would only be useful as long as you have an infant car seat that you don’t mind your child being in, is to use a metal frame stroller for the infant car seat. The frame, of course, wouldn’t have any flame retardants, but if the car seat did, it probably wouldn’t be as useful as getting a flame retardant-free stroller.
Yeah, I know. I still think it’s challenging to find strollers. I’ve seen and used OBU’s list. I’ve gotten to the point that I really don’t like buying products made in China for my son. That’s the main reason it’s so hard. I also think, like the BOB for example, it doesn’t have FR but it coated in polyurethane. So I feel like there is more to it than just FR.
I understand. As always, I’m learning new things from you! Do you have a resource I can recommend that may help me narrow down strollers to the ones that are least likely to be made in China or have negative aspects other than FRs? I would be thrilled to narrow down the stroller options. our son grew 2 inches last month, and we’ve only got 3 1/2 inches left in the Orbit car seat before I have to move on to something else. When that happens, I had to move him into a new stroller too.
I don’t, I feel like almost all the strollers are made in China now. That is why I went out and bought a used Mountain Buggy that was made in New Zealand. They are now made in China. It’s hard to come by. My son recently has almost grown out of the Mountain Buggy and has been asking to ride in the BOB 🙁 I had a stroller seat made out of organic cotton but it’s the best we can do for now.
I reached to Baby Jogger yesterday, because I was curious about the newly branded Honest City Mini GT. In the Honest website they claim: that the stroller materials are: 48% nylon, 44% polyester, 7% polyurethane foam, 1% TPU (thermoplastic polyurethane window) AND it’s free of flame retardants, phthalates, lead, hexavalent chromium, cadmium, mercury, antimony, arsenic, barium, selenium, azo dyes, nickel, penta/octa/deca bormides & formaldehyde.
Someone at Baby Jogger told me all these claims apply to their strollers. She said there is no need to use flame retardants in strollers, so they don’t use any. They still have PU foam, which sucks, but that one seems like a better option than the PU coated BOB stroller.
Do you know anything about what are the foams used in the Bumbleride Indie or Nuna Pepp stroller?
Also I heard the ERGO carrier has PU content in the foam (flame retardant free still). That is why I think Beco (polyester fill) might be a better carrier option.
I don’t know anything about the foams in the strollers. However I would check to see if the manufacturer adds FRs to the foam before they get it.
I chose the organic Ergo over the Beco. At the time Beco was adding FRs to their carrier which made me so mad since I was using the carrier. It definitely had a smell to it and lucky for me the store I bought it from returned it and I bough the Ergo. The organic Ergo is the only carrier on the market that is GOTS certified. Beco is now made in China which I don’t like at all. I got organic cotton teething pads that I put around the straps of the carrier where my sons mouth would be. Soon he was big enough that his face wasn’t near the straps. To me, the GOTS certification was what made me choose the Ergo. The non organic Ergo is made in China. The organic Ergo is made in India.
Thanks again for your informative post and discussions that followed.
Where did you get the organic seat made for your Bob stroller?
I got it on Etsy, it’s more like a liner that covers most of where they sit. I felt better about not having bear skin touch the fabric. She didn’t have organic fabric in her shop but said I could pick out anything I wanted off of fabric.com. https://www.etsy.com/shop/bubbaandblue
I believe, after going through multiple threads on this site, the nuna stroller is not treated with FR’s. so you can get the caraway and accompanying stroller. As you know the only thing with FRs in nuna is the foam in the car seat. A few people have reached out to them directly and made sure they recieved a newer model that wasn’t treated.
I’m going to backtrack a bit on my last comment. Did Uppababy tell you the stroller had FRs? I was told they do not in the stroller. I believe the mattress in the basinet might contain FR. Please let me know.
Hi, I called uppababy three times regarding the stroller. Each time they were slightly vague and seem to prefer sending a standard email. The first time I called I was told only the car seat contains FR but the last two times I was told all products do. From the email they seem similar to Nuna by avoiding the so called extremely toxic FR. This is the last email I received:
All UPPAbaby strollers and car seats exceed ASTM & JPMA compliance standards and governmental safety and testing standards.
An independent third party quality control laboratory tests our products regularly.
UPPAbaby does not use the following chemicals in the production of strollers and/or car seats (this includes foam):
PBB Chemicals
Brominated Tris
PBDE Chemicals
Pentabromodiphenyl ethers (Penta-BDEs)
Octabromodiphenyl ethers (Octa-BDEs)
Decabromodiphenyl ether (Deca-BDE)
Other Chemicals
Bis (2,3-dibromopropyl) phosphate
Tris (2,3-dibromopropyl) phosphate (TDBPP)
Tris (1,3-dichloro-2-propyl) Phosphate (TDCPP)
Tris (2-chloroethyl) Phosphate (TCEP)
Tris (1-chloro-2-propyl) Phosphate (TCPP)
2-Ethylhexyl tetrabromobenzoate (TBB)
Bis (2-ethylhexyl)-2,3,4,5-tetrabromophthalate (TBPH)
2,2-bis (chloromethyl) trimethylene
bis (bis(2-chloroethyl) phosphate) (V6)
tris- (4-tert-Butylphenyl) phosphate (TBPP)
· This is all the information I have and what we test for. We encourage you to consult your pediatrician for interpretation, and how to use this information.
Thank You!
I was interested in purchasing an Uppababy stroller after reading that it was free of FRs on the Organic Baby University blog. To be sure, I emailed Uppababy and 2 representatives confirmed that Uppababy strollers were indeed free of fire retardants. I received the stroller and noticed a TB117 label attached to the seat bottom. I was confused as to why this label was on the stroller and reached out to the customer service agents again. I wanted to know why this label was on the stroller and how they were meeting TB 117 without the use of fire retardants and really why they were even applying TB 117 to strollers. One of the representatives I had originally contacted never responded and the other told me that while Uppababy does not add fire retardants under manufacturing, the foam is treated with fire retardants by the supplier!!!!!!!!!!!! I wanted to ask one more Uppababy representative so I asked the question on their facebook page. I posted the question on June 4th and have yet to receive an answer. I posted my question two times.
It’s really disappointing when you think you have found something safe only to learn that you have been deceived. I strongly urge you to ask Uppababy directly by phone, email, and facebook. I am still waiting for my answer on Facebook but if more people post the same question on their Facebook we have a better chance of getting an answer!
My question: I noticed Uppababy strollers have the TB117 label attached to the seat cover. Are flame retardants or water/stain treatments used on the fabric or foam of the seat during manufacturing or by the supplier?
How disappointing! I can’t believe companies are doing this. Thanks for sharing what you found. I guess the only way around FRs in strollers now is finding a stroller that uses NO foam. It’s so sad that things have to be this hard and that FRs are added to freaking strollers.
Has anyone sent any Uppababy products to Duke University for testing?
That is so funny that they say to contact your pediatrician to interpret and use the info! So strange. It sounds like another reader had hers tested and it came back positive for FRs. So avoid them!
– I also called bugaboo and was told they do not use FR. The mattress of the bassinet is made from polyurethane foam but does not have FR. I feel sceptical about this.
– I must say Nuna company had the best costumer service and seem to be the most honest regarding this issue. Although I still need to find out if Nuna contains BPA or PVC.
I agree that Nuna has really good customer service and they are very forthcoming. That is some of the reason I like them. It seems are committed to using the least amount of toxic products they can.
Although it’s not necessarily related to car seats, I’m wondering if anybody knows anything about phthalate-free PVCs. I’m very interested in creating a photo book for my baby to look at so he can get to know the faces of his relatives who live far away. However, all the baby photo books I’ve seen are made with a PVC-type plastic to make the pocket for the photo. I found one made by Manhattan Toy that uses phthalate-free PVC, but some of the research I read says that it could still have problems like dioxin or lead. Does anyone know anything about this? Does anyone know a better option for creating a photo book that would be safe for him?
I don’t have any info for you about that but I was looking last year for the same thing and couldn’t find anything (I did give up after a couple of nights of looking though). I thought about making a photo book online but then I felt like he was just going to write the pages apart. Let me know if you find anything.
Have you looked in to Clerk car seats? When I was looking for a non toxic car seat this one seemed the best option not only for the fabric they use but for the extended rear-facing use as well.
I am curious what you think of this brand.
Thanks,
Cana
Yes, I have. I like that they are made in North America, a huge plus for me. However, they aren’t perfect from a FR standpoint. However, if I was buying a convertible seat it probably would be the one I choose since all the issues with Orbit came out.
I am creating a spreadsheet for each brand of stroller/carseat/travelcrib I’m interested on. I’m specifying whether they contain PVC, phthalates, polyurethane or polyester, cotton or wool, lead, heavy metals, toxic dyes, and flame retardants. I’m just starting to work on it based on info I’m gathering on forums and blogs and directly calling the companies. If I ever finish it before the baby is due (hahaha) I’ll try to post it here!
Thanks for all your information! That’s great you are making a spreadsheet. I’m in the processing of updating my blog post. Once you get your information please feel free to post it here or email it to me at [email protected] and I can post it to the blog. I will say it’s so disappointing that we, as parents, have to go to such lengths to try and get a non-toxic product for our kids.
Just using this last comment to make sure everyone has read my latest blog post. The news that HealthyStuff will be testing for the 7 most common FRs is HUGE! It will save us all time and worry when trying to pick out our next car seat – since children do grow 🙂
Please consider donating to help them do the study this summer. I’ve been a little disappointed to see how slowly their donations have been going up. It’s such an important study.
http://naturalbabymama.wordpress.com/2014/06/13/be-part-of-exposing-toxic-chemcials-in-childrens-car-seats/
My donation went in two weeks ago! 🙂 I agree; it’s a very important study!!!
Also, I just got this reply from Bumbleride. I inquired only about strollers and bassinets for strollers:
Thank you for your email and we would be more than happy to help. I know you didn’t ask for all of the information below but it’s our template for those inquiring about materials so I thought I would just send everything I know! ha-ha.
Bumbleride invests significantly to test our products and materials exclusively with CPSC approved independent labs.
With respect to your specific questions, the following is a summary of the major points:
Product Test method: acid digestion and extraction methods were used and toxic elements were determined by Inductively Couples Plasma-Optical Emission Spectrometer.
Lead (Pb): ND = Not detected
Mercury (Hg): ND
Cadmium (Cd): ND
Antimony (Sb): ND
Barium (Ba): ND
Selenium (Se): ND
Aresenic (As): ND
PVC: ND
Phthalates: ND
BPA: ND
Bromine: ND
You also asked about what the foam is made out of and it is fleece- it is not made out of Polyurethane.
Flame Retardant Filling Test Method: By Solvent Extraction and by GC-MS analysis:
Decabromodiphenlether (decaBDE): ND
Octabromodiphenylether (octaBDE): ND
Pentabromodiphenlether (pentaBDE): ND
Tris-(2,3-Dibromoproply) phosphate (Tris): ND
Tri (1,3-dichloropropyl) phosphate (TDCP): ND
Tris (2-chloroethl) phosphate (TCEP): ND
Tris (chloroisopropyl) Phosphate (TCPP): ND
These test results are just part of our USA standard test processes. All of our products are retested each year to make sure there are no changes to the materials used and that all of our products comply with American, Canadian, European, UK and Australian safety standards. Different standards test different chemicals. For example EU testing confirms no Phthalates, Formaldehyde, etc.
As a company we do everything we can to make products responsibly, which includes continual evaluation both through labs and our own internal processes that our products are safe for the children and parents who use them.
Thank you for your patience while we got back to you. Please do not hesitate to reply back with any further questions. Thank you and have a great day!
Best,
Kandi
Customer Care
Bumbleride Inc.
P 800 530 3930
F 619 615 2065
[email protected]
http://www.bumbleride.com
I just got a positive test for TDCPP from Duke on my carseat. Does anyone know of an independent lab that guarantees their results where I may submit a sample? Thanks.
Message me on Facebook please 🙂
I just got the same result from Duke for my Orbit car seat. I’m waiting to hear from them about what they found on the last sample I sent in before I post the results. But can you tell me more about what you’re going to do once you verify the results with an independent lab?
I have not yet decided. I cannot make any decisions until I have guaranteed results in hand. Innocent until provent guilty.
Is there a reason you feel Duke’s results aren’t guaranteed? Truly wondering. I’m not sure what to do with the information at this point, since my son is just a couple of inches of length from outgrowing his Orbit car seat, but I do trust that Duke’s results are true. However, if I were to engage in a lawsuit or something like that, I’d need an independent lab’s information.
Duke states that their results aren’t guaranteed when you fill our your info to send in samples.
Got it. Didn’t notice that! You have a good eye. 🙂
Which case seat did you have them test on sorry if I missed it in earlier posts!
So far I’ve heard of test results coming back on Orbit & Diono which both tested positive to TDCPP (Tris). Someone tested the head rest area of the Clek and nothing was found. She was going to re-test another area incase that didn’t contain FRs since it wasn’t the main part of the car seat but I haven’t heard back.
Orbit G2 infant carseat.
You should never replace your carseats cover with a homemade one or replace the foam. You are compromising the ability of seat to function properly in the event of a crash. While we should be concerned about chemicals and hopefully they will start manufacturing them without the chemicals please do not encourage people to tamper with their carseats. If you need further information about how to properly use a carseat you can contact any certified carseat technician
Does anyone know anything about the relative safety of TPE (Thermal Plastic Elastomer)? I’ve come across it more and more lately, and even found a teether made of it. I can’t seem to find any information saying it’s harmful when children chew on it, but I haven’t found anything that seems to indicate it’s definitely safe. I’d love any information anyone has on it. Thanks!
In re to the teether, you might want to contact Bethany Gonzalez Moreno here http://www.b-ecochic.com/contact.html. Non toxic toys/teethers and testing is her specialty so she might know something. I have received very useful info from her in the past.
Thank you! That’s a great site, and I’d never been there before. I really appreciate your help!
Which car seat do you currently recommend? I saw in April you said you no longer recommend orbit? Is that still true? I’m so confused and don’t know what to get. Thanks for your help! !
Sorry for the delay in getting back to you! I do not recommend Orbit from a toxicity standpoint. Mine tested positive for Tris. For an infant seat I would get Nuna and for the convertible I would probably get Clek but I haven’t seen any results on FR testing for the foam in the seat on Clek.
No problem! I am thinking about the clek. I came across this website http://www.tierneycyanne.com/blog/2014/3/11/non-toxic-tuesday-carseat-edition, which says the foonf is free of brominated and chlorinated FR. Let me know what you think.
I’ve got a similar reply from Clek:
“Samantha (Clek Inc)
Jun 19 03:42 PM
Hi Sabina,
Thank you for contacting Clek. The 2014 Foonf models have been deemed free of all harmful chemicals including no brominated or chlorinated flame retardants. More information will be available via healthystuff.org within the next several months.
Kind Regards,
Samantha Musacchia
clek
Customer Support Team”
I wasn’t exactly pleased as the email didn’t answer my questions, just tried to redirect me. This is what I asked:
” What type of specific flame retardant do you use on your car seats? Do your
seats contain BPA, PVC, Phthalates, Lead? What specific type of plastic do
you use?”
Any idea if the 2013 models are also free of brominated and chlorinated flame retardants? I still see 2013 models on sale (like the paul frank hearts one, on a one day sale right now at a store in Canada)
Anyone know anything about the Cybex Aton Q infant car seat? I was picking between that and the Nuna Pipa but the aton q has the extra side impact protection. I’ve only been told the fabric is a polyester fabric, called “comfort” It seems they are both made in China (is that correct for the nuna pipa?) Then I came across this.
I know you said something about if you got the nuna pipa be sure it was a newer manufacture date- can you give me more details on this? Thanks
Here is my response from Cybex in regards to the Aton Q:
“In order for us to be able to sell a car seat, and that is for any car seat here, the US Government requires the fabric to be treated with flame retardant. This is what CYBEX states in their disclosure:
Cybex uses a proprietary solution that does not contain halogenated (brominated or chlorinated) flame retardants and is free of the heavy metals lead, antimony, arsenic, chromium, cobalt, copper, mercury, nickel or tin. Stiftung Warentest (a German independent consumer testing institute) tested European products, including car seats, for hazardous substances, and CYBEX is proud to say that our car seats received only top marks. http://blog.cybex-online.com/blog/topnews/cybex-aton-2-withwithout-isofix-and-cybex-juno-fix-are-the-stiftung-warentest-test-winners/
These results further support our dedication to child safety, not only in the technical requirements of the product, but also in our selection of non-hazardous materials and fabrics.
I asked about the Oeko-Tex fabric, and while it is true that it is organic, it has to be treated also with flame retardant if used on a car seat. Those are just the regulations of our government and we have to comply”
Actually it’s not the regulations of our government. The regulations are that they burn at a certain slowness. It’s their choice to use fabric and foam that is flammable. Since they use that then they HAVE to use chemical FRs. If they used naturally flame resistant materials like wool wrapped in cotton then they wouldn’t have to use FRs at all.
I like that Nuna is forthcoming about the FRs they use and for that reason I would choose them. I don’t like the proprietary talk that a lot of companies use to not disclose what they are using. They aren’t making up their own special FR, they are using one that is already on the market.
Just my two cents 🙂
Hi, so while Nuna doesn’t use FR (except the ammonium phosphate in the car seat) there is a foam that is used. I called, and they didn’t know what kind of foam it was. Does anyone know? For what it’s worth the customer representative told me that the Sena (travel crib) has polyurethane foam in the mattress.
Amy, I think you asked about the foam in the Pipa carseat. In the newest black color Pipa, the grey padded insert is 55% resinated polyester fiber batting and 45% polyurethane foam. The rest of the black seat cover is also padded and attached to the plastic components of the seat, so I could not remove it and did not find any other accessible tag. I will assume is made of the same materials as the gray pad. I don’t think you will find a foam free infant carseat unless you totally replace the cover. I know Sassy Stork does not make covers for Pipa yet (I asked them).
Not true, the government just requires a certain level of protection, however it’s achieved. Many companies use natural materials like wool, which are naturally flame retardant.
I looked into the test methods used by the German Stiftung Warentest regarding the toxicity evaluation. They tested all textile materials with which the child would come into direct contact for PAKs, phthalates, flame retardants and bromated flame retardants, formaldehyde, phenol compounds, organotin compounds, AZO dyes, and heavy metals (sorry if this is poorly translated – I’m not a chemist). I don’t think, the test included samples of foam or other hidden materials.
For anyone speaking German, here is a link: http://www.adac.de/infotestrat/tests/kindersicherung/kindersitz-test/
The Cybex Aton Q was one of 11 infant car seats with a rating of “good” (similar to a grade B). One seat was rated “very good” or A, and four more seats were given a “satisfactory” (C) or lower. All 16 seats in the infant category got a rating of “very good” on the toxicity criterion. So the Cybex Aton Q is no better than any of the other tested seats on this criterion.
Thanks for this post! Definitely enough information out there to make your head spin.
I’m in the market for a new car seat as my daughter will soon be outgrowing her infant seat. I’m torn between the following:
– Diono Radian RXT in Rugby or Storm
– Clek Foonf in “Drift”, which is not Crypton fabric
– Clek Foonf in another colour that is Crypton
I know it will be my choice to make, but if you were to buy one and leave it as is (i.e., not replace any covers, etc.), which would you choose of these?
With respect to the Foonfs, I like the fact that HealthyStuff.org has apparently deemed the them free of harmful chemicals, including brominated and chlorinated flame retardants, but I’m not sure what type of flame retardants they are using and if the Crypton fabric, although GreenGuard certified, would contain other types of potentially harmful chemicals.
As for the Radians, having the fabric not treated with FR at all is appealing. Any idea how high the risk is of FR being released from the foam and through the fabric?
Thanks!
Diono tested positive for Tris. The risk is high that FR get released from the foam. Tiny particles get into the air just the same way that it does with your couch. I would go with Clek. They use a “fluoro based chemistry” FR.
Without testing, how do we know what any company uses? We know what they say they use or don’t use, but based on our Duke test results, what companies say they use doesn’t seem to mean to much. I need a seat now, but how do I trust another company after being burned by the makers of my infant car seat?
Sadly, you don’t know. It’s to the point that they are all pretty bad.
Clek also has leather options, which don’t have the FR’s.
Unbelievable and horribly disappointing. I finally got my Duke results back, and my *MAY 2010* Orbit baby stroller and car seat tested positive for TDCPP. That was back when Orbit was saying that they –were– Okeo Tek certified for the foam…
What to do about this now?! Any breakthroughs from anyone dealing with Orbit corporate yet??
I just got the same result back from Duke today on our Orbit. Hugely disappointing. Curious if anyone has reached out to Orbit with their results? It’s a classic fraud case. Anyone interested in rallying together, please email me at tiilaabbitt at gmail.
I think the ball has already started rolling with this. Private message me with any details you have please.
WOW!! That is shocking to me. Thanks for sharing. I talked to a manager in corporate once, left a message a few weeks later and never heard back (again).
I am so disappointed to hear about the Duke results on the 2010 stroller. I have both the Orbit car seat and stroller (which I purchased only due to the promised lack of flame retardant).
I am wondering if there is a recommendation on strollers with no flame retardant. Thanks!!
And, yeah Orbit cannot continue to lie and hide. This is horrible and they profited greatly on their false claims.
The BOB doesn’t have FRs and neither does the Mountain Buggy. Look for strollers that don’t have foam, that is the best start.
I had no idea that Bob and Mountain Buggy didn’t have FR, I thought only Nuna didn’t. So all of their strollers in their line are FR free?
That’s what they claim! I believe that to be more true for Mountain Buggy because their is no foam. I will have to look at my BOB again but I’m pretty sure there is foam in the back rest.
Hi Everyone,
I am just completely overwhelmed and disappointed by all the positive results coming back from Duke on Orbit products. I’m a bit in the weeds about specifically which products of Orbit people have tested and what chemicals Duke is finding in the products. Would anyone, be willing to scan their results/letter from Duke, with the details? If not, would anyone feel comfortable emailing me directly with a scan of it? I’m so mad! Thank you in advance for your help. Thanks!
I’d be glad to share mine, but it was an email, so I’ll just copy and paste the text. I just need to look up the date my car seat was manufactured so I can share the info.
Thanks so much! Can’t wait to see it!
I have a G2 Orbit car seat, manufactured on April 30, 2013. I submitted two foam samples from the car seat cover (I did not submit any styrofoam, since others had done that and had not found flame retardants on any): a yellow foam found inside the fabric cover (#313) and a harder white foam found in a pockets on either side of where the child’s head rests (#314). I also submitted samples of foam from two different couches I have. Duke found Tris (TDCPP) in the yellow foam from the Orbit car seat, but did not find any flame retardant in the white foam. They found Firemaster 550 in the sample from the La-Z-Boy sofa we have, but no flame retardants in the one we have from Raymour and Flanagan, which is encouraging. Although there may still be flame retardants in that couch or the white foam, it’s none of the seven for which Duke is testing.
I’m incredibly frustrated and upset by this. My mother-in-law purchased the car seat and stroller for us as a gift, knowing how important it was for us to have something safe for our son. To think he’s been sitting in Tris this whole time is very upsetting. I’m glad that he’s nearly outgrown it, and hopefully we can get him into the Clek Foonf soon.
Duke sent two letters: one explains the results they found, and the other details potential issues with the flame retardants they are testing the foam samples for. I pasted each below. The letters are on Duke letterhead.
June 19, 2014
Dear Laurie,
Thank you for participating in the Duke University Superfund Research Center’s study. We have tested your foam sample for the presence or absence of seven different types of flame retardant chemicals that are commonly applied to residential furniture. If you submitted multiple samples, you may receive a separate email for each sample.
RESULTS
Sample number: 313
Product type: Child car seat
Brand: Orbit
Result: We detected TDCPP in this sample.
Sample number: 314
Product type: Child car seat
Brand: Orbit
Result: No flame retardants were detected in this sample.
Sample number: 315
Product type: Sofa
Brand: La-Z-Boy
Result: We detected Firemaster 550 in this sample.
Sample number: 316
Product type: Sofa
Brand: Raymour and Flanagan
Result: No flame retardants were detected in this sample.
Attached to this letter you will find some additional information on the specific flame retardant
chemicals we tested for in your foam. Additionally, you can find tips on how to reduce your exposure to flame retardants by visiting the resources page on our website (foam.pratt.duke.edu). Please keep in mind that a “No flame retardants detected” result does not necessarily mean that this sample is free of all flame retardants. We have the capacity to test for 7 known types of flame retardant chemicals, but there may be new formulations on the market that we cannot test for at this time. Please feel free to contact me with any questions.
Best,
Heather Stapleton, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Environmental Chemistry
Nicholas School of the Environment
LSRC, Box 90328
Duke University provides this information to the public as a service. The content of our website, publications, and correspondence should not be considered advice or endorsement and is for informational purposes only. As a scientific institute, we strive for accuracy; however, occasional errors are unavoidable. Duke University is not responsible for decisions made based on information we provide.
The Second Letter:
7 Common Flame Retardant Chemicals
Penta BDE
PentaBDE is a commercial flame retardant mixture containing brominated chemicals called PBDEs (polybrominated diphenyl ethers). PentaBDE has been used for decades in residential furniture, but due to concerns over their persistence, ability to accumulate in humans, as well as their potential toxicity, the US began a phase-out of pentaBDE in 2005.
For more information on PBDEs, including pentaBDE, read the ToxFAQs summary (http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/toxfaqs/tf.asp?id=900&tid=183) created by the US Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry.
TDCPP
TDCPP, or tris (1,3-dichloro-2-propyl) phosphate, is an organophosphate flame retardant that is being used to replace PentaBDE. TDCPP, which is used as an additive flame retardant in resins, polymers, latexes, and foams, is most widely used in the US (annual estimations are 4,500-22,700 metric tons). *Footnote 1
There is evidence that TDCPP is a probable carcinogen and a developmental neurotoxicant *Footnote 2, as well as an endocrine disruptor in fish.
For more information on TDCPP, read This Environmental Health Perspectives article (http://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/121-a150/),
This technical report published by California’s EPA in 2011 (http://oehha.ca.gov/prop65/hazard_ident/pdf_zip/TDCPP070811.pdf), and
This factsheet (http://www.epa.gov/dfe/pubs/flameret/altrep-v2/altrept-v2-section3a.pdf) from EPA’s Environmental Profiles of Chemical Flame Retardant Alternatives report (http://www.epa.gov/dfe/pubs/flameret/ffr-alt.htm) on their Design for the Environment page
Firemaster ® 550
Firemaster® 550 (FM 550) is a mixture of brominated and organo-phosphorous flame retardants. It was advertised as a replacement for pentaBDE following its phase-out. Other than some limited testing carried out by the manufacturer, little information on the health effects of Firemaster 550 is available. However, a recent study conducted by researchers at Duke University and NC State found that some of the components in FM 550 bioaccumulate and act as an endocrine disruptor. FM 550 may also cause obesity, metabolic disruption, and increase the onset of puberty.
For more information, read this press release from NC State University on a recent study of Firemaster 550. (http://news.ncsu.edu/releases/wms-patisaul-firemaster/)
V 6
V6 is a chlorinated organophosphate flame retardant that can contain TCEP as an impurity in the mixture. TCEP is considered a carcinogen.
TBPP
TBPP, or Tris-isobutylated triphenyl phosphate, is a mixture organophosphate flame retardants that do not contain halogens (e.g. bromine or chlorine). About 40% of the TBPP mixture is a chemical called triphenyl phosphate (TPP). Limited information exists on the health impacts of this mixture, but scientific studies have shown that TPP can have high acute aquatic toxicity.
EPA conducted a risk characterization for TBPP, click here (http://www.epa.gov/hpvis/rbp/220352352_Butylated%20Triphenyl%20Phosphate_Web_RBPSuppDocs.July2008.pdf) to read their technical document from 2008.
MPP Mix
MPP, or methyl phenyl phosphate, is a mixture of organophosphate flame retardants that do not contain halogens (e.g. bromine or chlorine). Triphenyl phosphate (TPP) is also a primary component in MPP (see above for more information on TPP). Little information is available on the toxicity and levels of exposure to chemicals found in this mixture.
TCPP
TCPP is very similar in structure to TDCPP (see above) – it’s used as an additive flame retardant in resins, polymers, latexes, and foams, and is most widely used in the US (annual estimations are 4,500-22,700 metric tons).3 As a relatively new flame retardant additive, little is known about possible health effects.
1 Meeker JD, et al. Urinary metabolites of organophosphate flame retardants: Temporal variability and correlations with house dust concentrations. Environ Health Perspect 121:580-585. (2013); http://dx.doi.org/10.1289/ehp.1205907
2 Dishaw LV, et al. Is the PentaBDE replacement, tris (1,3-dichloropropyl) phosphate (TDCPP), a developmental neurotoxicant? Studies in PC12 cells. Toxicol Appl Pharmacol 256(3):281–289. (2011); http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.taap.2011.01.005
3 See first footnote
I had the G2 tested and it was purchased in late 2012. Amy to answer your question I’m going to say all of their products most likely have it. Someone had their 2010 Orbit tested and it came back positive for Tris.
Ok, so to summarize: Nuna Pipa for infant car seat (FR but they’re forthcoming and whatever it is they use is better than the Tris found in Orbit’s), Clek for the toddler car seat, —OR for either buy a cheaper seat and get a custom cover from Etsy which will replace the fabric and the foam, and Mountain Buggy or BOB for a stroller. Organic ErgoBaby to replace the stroller whenever possible.
FYI nautral babymama, as I was researching the Mountain Buggy they let me know that the product has actually always been made in China. The people who originally owned the company misled in their advertising. It was always only boxed in New Zealand and manufactured in China. When the new company took over, they decided to be more forthcoming about this. See the email chain from the guy below:
My Question: (you’re the ‘friend’ I refer to 😉
Hi there, Our family is asking what to buy us for our first baby and we would love to have them purchase the Mountain Buggy stroller for us so that we can jog as a family. However, we are really focused on not buying Made in China products. I understand from a friend that your 2012 and earlier models were made in New Zealand. I would much rather our family go direct through you, rather than Craigslist or something, and wondered if there was any chance you still sell older models/Made in New Zealand models? Thanks so much, Kelsey P.S. Could you also please provide me a list of flame retardants that are used for your stroller just so I know? I believe the stroller seat is nylon, correct? Appreciate it!
Their response + a full discussion about this misleading on the phone:
Hi Kelsey,
Happy to answer your questions. Thanks so much for taking the time to reach out to us. We actually make Mountain Buggy in the same factory it’s always been! When phil&teds purchased Mountain Buggy in late 2009, we advertised where models were REALLY made rather than state NZ (only boxing done there). On the whole we have kept parts and design the same and have parts widely available, but we simply cannot all produce parts for older buggies. Mountain Buggy still has the same mark of quality and dependable engineering the brand has always been synonymous with. The line has more owners worldwide than ever before, and has been revitalized with several new models as well.
All strollers sold here meet ALL other worldwide standards as North America has some of the toughest product standards. We not only pass, but exceed every safety standard worldwide! No Phil and Teds or Mountain Buggy products sold in the USA have been treated with fire retardants. Fabric is a rip stop nylon. he buggies are a PVC and BPA free product as well.
For more information about the tests each of our products have undergone, please see http://www.philandteds.com/certificates. You can download the certification for the product you are interested in.
Thank you so much for this! So on the stroller front, would a Nuna stroller also work? And has someone checked the foam that is used in a Phil & Teds/Mountain Buggy? We all need to get PHD’s in this after all this is sorted out.
I was put off on buying a Bob stroller after recently reading an update from Organic Baby University saying that Bob strollers have a tag that warns about the stroller containing lead (not sure what this means). Click on link and scroll down to Bob strollers: http://organicbabyuniversity.com/blog/2011/07/toxic-flame-retardants-in-your-home-strollers-part-1/
Bumbleride appears to be a chemically safe option, but I could not afford their price-tag (see their answer to my questions below). So I ended up buying a Baby Jogger stroller to use with the Nuna Pipa. Baby Jogger claims not using flame retardants and other chemicals (see their e-mail below). However, their pads are still made of polyurethane.
BABYJOGGER
“We strive to ensure that we manufacture strollers that are safe for consumers and their riders. As a result our fabrics and stroller components are all tested to meet or exceed all chemical and lead requirements according to ASTM (American Safety for Testing and Materials) or CPSIA (Consumer Product Safety Improvement Act) guidelines. In the United States, our strollers are free of flame retardants, PVC, BPA, latex, teflon, phthalates, AZO dyes and Scotchguard”
BUMBLERIDE
Bumbleride invests significantly to test our products and materials exclusively with CPSC approved independent labs. With respect to your specific questions, the following is a summary of the major points:
Product Test method: acid digestion and extraction methods were used and toxic elements were determined by Inductively Couples Plasma-Optical Emission Spectrometer.
Lead (Pb): ND = Not detected
Mercury (Hg): ND
Cadmium (Cd): ND
Antimony (Sb): ND
Barium (Ba): ND
Selenium (Se): ND
Aresenic (As): ND
PVC: ND
Phthalates: ND
BPA: ND
Bromine: ND
You also asked about what the foam is made out of and it is fleece- it is not made out of Polyurethane.
Flame Retardant Filling Test Method: By Solvent Extraction and by GC-MS analysis:
Decabromodiphenlether (decaBDE): ND
Octabromodiphenylether (octaBDE): ND
Pentabromodiphenlether (pentaBDE): ND
Tris-(2,3-Dibromoproply) phosphate (Tris): ND
Tri (1,3-dichloropropyl) phosphate (TDCP): ND
Tris (2-chloroethyl) phosphate (TCEP): ND
Tris (chloroisopropyl) Phosphate (TCPP): ND
These test results are just part of our USA standard test processes. All of our products are retested each year to make sure there are no changes to the materials used and that all of our products comply with American, Canadian, European, UK and Australian safety standards. Different standards test different chemicals. For example EU testing confirms no Phthalates, Formaldehyde, etc. As a company we do everything we can to make products responsibly, which includes continual evaluation both through labs and our own internal processes that our products are safe for the children and parents who use them. Thank you for your patience while we got back to you. Please do not hesitate to reply back with any further questions. Thank you and have a great day!
Yeah… let’s get our PhDs!
Interesting – thanks for sharing! Lead is a serious issue for kids and I would avoid anything that says it has lead. This is a new development for the BOB!
Just wanted to get this convo going again. I’ve decided to get the nuna pippa car seat, but am also thinking of getting the Nuna pepp stroller as well. Does anyone know how safe the stroller is? Any FR in it? I tried asking nuna, but they just directed me to their certifiably green website link which is very vague.
Another reader had a similar vague statement from them. Seems like they are backtracking or at least not being forthcoming anymore. Find a stroller without foam to be sure there is no FRs. Mountain Buggy is FR free but it’s a bulkier running type stroller.
There is no foam in my Mountain Buggy. I would go with no foam at all over trying to figure out if a company is telling you the truth is they are using FRs in their foam.
I called and spoke with a manager of mountain buggy and Phil & Teds. They are now one company and he told me none of their strollers re treated with flame retardants and I went through three options of strollers with him tht do not contain any FRs. I didn’t discuss the mountain buggy strollers since I wasn’t looking for a running stroller. The Phil and teds vibe, verve and cosmopolitan has foam free however their infant carry bassinet that you can buy does contain foam. I emailed about 3 additional strollers they make to find out. I can update when I get the info. They were extremely nice about it.
I had a similar conversation with nuna that the other reader had. They wouldn’t identify their foam but they did say and it does state on their site that they are complaint with a variety of certifications and that they don’t use flame retardants. So at this point is the nuna car seat still the best infant option?
AGH!! It’s this stuff that makes me so mad. Literally I went out of my way to find a used Mountain Buggy that says Made in NZ on it. It looks like it doesn’t matter. I still think this is probably the least toxic stroller out there even if it is made in China. Thanks for the post!
Sorry, on the Orbit, one other question- Laurie G, it’s interesting that one type of phone tested positive for Tris (the yellow one), but the white one didn’t, I wonder how that’s possible and/or how/why they would be using two different kinds. If one type is FR free, why not use that throughout? Very confusing.
I agree, it’s weird that they don’t have any FR on the one foam when they do on the other. Of course, it’s possible that they are putting an FR on the white foam that isn’t one of the ones Duke tested for. The white foam is much thicker and more dense then the foam inside the cover. The foam inside the cover is very porous, and perhaps it burns at a different rate than the white foam? That would be my guess for why they didn’t put FRs on the white foam. I assume that’s the reasoning for why there’s no FR on the styrofoam either.
Hi everyone, I’ve been following this blog for a long time and can’t thank you all enough for sharing this information. I recently ran into a few issues with Nuna and wanted to share. I decided to purchase a Nuna car seat and have been considering their stroller and portable travel crib. Before I purchased the stroller and crib, I emailed asking them to confirm the products didn’t contain FRs. After a few follow up emails, I still hadn’t heard back so I called them. The customer service rep said even though they had told me in the past the crib didn’t contain FRs [I had previously emailed them] he could no longer confirm the crib or the stroller were FR free. He apologized for being “vague.” He also said they wouldn’t be able to provide any more information or respond directly to the email I had sent and referred me to the certifiably green statement on their website. On a previous call, I had inquired about the specific FR used in the car seat and although I have in an email saying it’s from the ammonium polyphosphate category, the customer service rep said he didn’t know and knowing the FR they use is “the 64 million dollar question.” Not exactly the response I was hoping to hear.
I had really liked how honest Nuna seemed to be when it came to their products, but it seems this is changing. Has anyone else had this experience?
Very interesting!!
No foam on the Styrofoam is because Styrofoam doesn’t burn like polyurethane foam. Could be true about the other foams, that Duke didn’t test for it or that foam isn’t as flammable either.
This is what Baby Jogger told me. They are sending me a 2014 seat replacement. I bought both the 2012 GT and 2012 Mini and they offered to replace both but I’d already sold the GT. ” Stroller models manufactured before September 2013 may have contained flame retardants. As in September 2013 we began to ensure that they did not contain flame retardants”
It’s where they are getting the foam from. I think some of the foam is coming pre-treated. Some foam also burns faster than others and needs FRs when other’s don’t.
I bought and returned the Nuna Pepp stroller. It doesn’t surprise me they backtracked in telling you about it containing FRs…..they told me it did NOT and sent me something that since 2010 no FRs have been required in US strollers. Anyway…..it smelled so strong I could not keep it in the house. I did a review of the stroller here: http://bluehippobaby.blogspot.com/2014/08/review-nuna-pepp-stroller.html
I am working with Baby Jogger to replace my 2012 City Mini cover (which likely contains FRs) with a 2014 cover (which they claim does not contain FRs).
Can you clarify about the Baby Jogger cover? My understanding is that Baby Jogger strollers do not have fire retardants on them, which is the first and foremost reasson I bought the Citi Mini GT. If that is not the case, I will need to contact them, provided I can find the literature where I read it was FR-free.
I have in my email from baby jogger that they don’t use flame retardants but they do use polyurethane foam in their seats as cushioning. So I’m assuming that the foam is treated and then stuffed in the seat. Maybe others have different information.
Well, without testing we don’t know. Perhaps I’ll send in a sample next month. However, I can definitively say that polyurethane foam is also sold without flame retardants. I know because when I was looking to purchase a couch I spoke to many people in the industry, including someone that worked a factory that made foam and I was specifically told that it was made both ways and up to the furniture people which foam they purchased. Innocent until proven guilty.
Is anyone aware of an umbrella stroller that is free of FR’s? I’m hoping to find something lightweight and compact, that I can tote around over my shoulder or on my back possibly. thanks.
My sister in law bought a Maclaren umbrella stroller. I called them and they claim no FRs. She said the stroller she bought doesn’t have foam except for on the handlebar. It might be worth checking out.
One more thing is that I mentioned to Nuna my stroller was manufactured 12/31/13 and they said it should still be FR free but they also sent me something stating they can only guarantee their 2014 manufactured items are FR free. Go figure. Aside from the chem smell I did not think it was a very functional stroller and the cheaper City Mini I already had was much better (and lighter) bang for the buck.
I am so confused. I own the orbit G2 infant carseat, manufactured July 2013, and I can’t find any yellow foam anywhere on the seat. Underneath the fabric is a solid, white formed foam.
Even the foam in the upper corner, velcroed into the fabric is white.
Hi – I’ve been following this discussion for a while now. I bought an Orbit toddler seat a year and a half ago (and had read your original post as part of my research), based on the claims of it being free of harmful FRs. Imagine my surprise when I re-found this post and the new information reporting that the foam is full of all sorts of nastiness :-(. I’m about to have a second baby and had planned to purchase the Orbit baby seat. I emailed Orbit just to see what they’d say about the whole thing and, not surprisingly, got no response. I’m leaning toward the Nuna now (imperfect but honest), thanks to the recommendations from everyone here.
I see you mentioned for someone else to private message you for further information about any action that might be taken against Orbit. I was going to PM you, but I can’t for the life of me figure out how to do so. Can you point me in the right direction and/or email me directly? Thanks!
You can PM me through my Facebook page.
I’ve been wondering the same thing; how can I find your FB page? I am accessing the sure on my phone, so maybe I’m missing something?
You can click on the FB link on my blog’s homepage or you can type in Natural Baby Mama and it should pull up. I don’t do much with it but it is a good place for messages 🙂
First and foremost, thank you for all your research and for sharing. I am driving myself batshit crazy figuring out the best route to take. I would like to do the Nuna Pipa (as from what I can tell this is the least toxic route) BUT the nuna Pipa will not fit on the BOB stroller we already have. I thinkwe are also going to get the Uppababy Vista as I believe this is the better stroller between the bugaboo and uppababy, right? Then I wonder how critical it is for the Pipa to fit the BOB because I don’t think you can run with an infant, even in the infant car seat on a BOB…everything I read says they need head control….and by the time they have head control wouldn’t they be sitting directly in the BOB and not in the infant car seat attached to the BOB? My head spins just typing all that…any insight/feedback is greatly appreciated! 🙂
Yes, you can’t run with a baby until they have good head control so you really don’t need the adaptor. An earlier poster said that BOB has a lead warning on their strollers now. I would check that before using! I read something today about how Uppababy didn’t test well. I would find a stroller without foam!
Does it matter the color of the nuna pipa infant car seat? I know in some products the color drastically changed the levels of chemicals. Also are there any double strollers that you would recommend that are compatible with the nuna seat? I have a toddler and baby #2 due shortly.
Nuna is now being vague, I think they seem to be backtracking a bit. Maybe it’s because of everything going on, people testing things, etc. The reality of the car seat situation is that none of them are good. If what Nuna was saying earlier is true then they are one of the better ones. I don’t know of any strollers that are compatible. Maybe wear the baby and use your existing stroller until baby is big enough to sit up in a stroller. That way you aren’t trying to find a compatible stroller?
Thank you and I appreciate your suggestion. Sounds like the best thing we can do for now is minimize our travel/car seat time and baby wear as much as possible!
I want to say thank you for all of this head spinning info! Do you know if the nuna is the same in all it’s colors? After reading about the different toxicity levels being different just in different fabric colors I’m nervous to purchase without asking! Also does anyone have a recommendation for a less toxic double stroller that can be used with the Nuna. Appreciate it
I don’t know anything specific to different colors in Nuna but I have learned from a heavy metal standpoint red and yellow are good colors to avoid. Not saying that all red and yellow are bad and this doesn’t have anything to do with Nuna at all. Just something I learned in general from someone who tests a lot of products for heavy metals 🙂
I think the Nuna Pipa is supposed to fit on the Bumbleride Indie stroller with one of their adapters (the Maxi Cosi one maybe?). I haven’t tried it yet.
When I got the Nuna Pipa inspected by our local engineers/EMTs they were really excited about how easy it was to install and use. It actually only took my husband like a minute to install it. I am keeping my fingers crossed that they were honest about their FR…
This is making my head SPIN. Angrily. And with worry. (I also have the cubes seat, and he’s been in it for such a very very long time – we bought the Orbit a while ago for him to grow into, and I was just about to swap him out into it and found your post. I tried to swap him into the Orbit yesterday just to get him out of the keyfit and found to my dismay that I couldn’t get the seat belt tight enough – I have to call orbit because he SHOULD be tall enough for it already, by far (even though I don’t want him in it!! But I want him in the keyfit even less!!!!)
But now I can’t decide if we should get a Nollie cover, or a Foonf. UGH. Decisions. All awful decisions.
I am wondering if it would be possible for you to share a picture of your G2 seat with the Nollie cover on it? Do you find that it is truly a very very snug fit, just like the original? And – does she also make a brand-new headrest attachment, or is it just the cover itself and then you don’t use the headrest? My concern with regular cotton or wool padding is that they will compress over time, unlike foam (which is awful for obvious chemical reasons, but the padding does not compress) and I’m wondering how a Nollie cover would hold up in light of that. It sounds like you have only recently gotten yours so I am not sure if you’ll be able to comment on wear and tear just yet… would it be better for me to PM you via facebook? Thanks.
Can you PM me on facebook? I can’t figure out how to PM you 🙂
Getting ready to buy a Clek, so reading over their website. Why doesn’t it say anywhere that no brominated or chlorinated fire retardants are used in the 2014 models? Am I missing it? I would think that they would want to broadcast it, especially since I saw that there was some type of a press release in conjunction with healthystuff.org. Also, do we have any Duke tests back yet on the 2014 models?
I thought the same thing, re Clek! It’s weird to have it just via emails from Clek but NOT on the site…
I also reached out to crypton fabrics to see if I could get any more info.
No Duke results back on anything re Clek except the headrest that came back showing no FR that Duke was testing for.
That’s a very good point about Clek. They sent me this which is in their media section. It looks like it is just 2014 models. http://media.clekinc.com/2014/03/07/clek-2014-car-seats-officially-free-of-bromine-and-chlorine-based-flame-retardants-as-per-healthystuff-org/
After reaching out to orbit on facebook they responded by referring me to this link. They touch on the testing done by duke towards the end. I’m not sure what to think about it.
http://mobi.orbitbaby.com/en/support/foam-testing/
Yeah, I was VERY unimpressed with that link. It’s basically “Duke obviously doesn’t test properly! Because we test ALL the time and WE say it’s fine. So we’re checking with Duke, but even though they’ve found it in LOTS of our car seats, they must be testing incorrectly. I mean, look, they even say their results are not guaranteed in any way, so they admit they’re testing incorrectly! You should believe US and NOT Duke.” Here’s the relevant text for those who don’t feel like clicking through:
SUBJECT HEADING:
I heard your products tested positive for Firemaster 550 from Duke University.
ORBIT’S RESPONSE:
We stand behind our rigorous testing program that ensures our materials maintain chemical safety standards that meet or exceed applicable governmental guidelines. We are working with those consumers who have received results from Duke University and are investigating the subject products.
In addition, we are in direct communication with Duke University to fully understand the university’s testing process and methodologies. It is important for consumers to note that according to the Duke University website, participants in its testing program must “sign an acknowledgement that the results [it supplies] are not guaranteed in any way”. Nonetheless, we take the Duke University test results seriously and our goal is to better understand its testing methodology and historical experience with products that must meet the federal guidelines for car seat flammability, not just in-home use.
Through the use of independent laboratories, thorough sampling of multiple units, and tight control of source materials, Orbit Baby is an industry leader in taking real action towards creating products that are both safe for your baby and safe for our planet.”
Agreed, plus as I just wrote in another comment Orbit seats are testing positive for Tris not Firemaster 550. So they are either confused or trying to confuse us. I haven’t seen them take any “real action” as they state that they do.
That’s basically what they said to me on the phone. I think if they are wanting to take this head on they should SHOW us their results and prove that Duke is wrong (which I don’t think they are). Also it’s Tris (TDCPP) NOT Firemaster 550 that is showing up; so in a round about way they actually didn’t address Tris. They are correct, Firemaster 500 isn’t showing up.
Interesting, but frustrating. We know the people with the 2010 car seat found that it had flame retardants, so their statement that they started in 2012 is not accurate. They also address Firemaster 550, but I and many others on here have found that their seats have Tris. It seems that they are doing a lot of covering up instead of actually being honest and transparent. That’s frustrating.
Hi all– Now that Nuna is being vague what to do? QUESTION: Has anyone seen any Duke tests results back on the Nuna???/ Seems like that’s the only way to really know anything these days! I bought the Orbit after all of this research, but my (2010) model did test positive for TDCPP, the WORST. I’m thinking as long as Nuna doesn’t have tris, it would be better, right?
Has anyone seen any test results???
Thanks! (baby due in 3-5 weeks :),
Kelsey
I responded to a different comment of yours but wanted to say that I agree, Tris and Brominated FRs are the worst. It’s amazing your 2010 tested positive for it. Makes me so mad!
I have purchased a Clek Foonf for lack of better option. I got the version in Drift, which is not Crypton. I did not do extensive research on Crypton fabrics, but I want as little anything as possible, so drift was the way to go.
It is very easy to get a piece of foam from where the straps come out, so I will send a piece in to Duke for testing so we may be assured they are making good on their promise of no chlorinated or brominated fire retardants.
A few initial impressions. The Foonf seems to be built like a tank. It seems like a proper seat that comes with the car, as opposed to an add-in. Very, very heavy and very secure feeling. It also sits quite high. I’m tall and have to stretch to look up and over it to check my blind spot. I’m having trouble getting it to sit exactly even, so am going to a carseat checking place to get my installation checked. I like that my baby can be rear facing to 50 lbs. That’s a big deal since it’s much safer. That being said, I do miss my Orbit because of one very useful feature — the swivel base. I could swivel the car seat to put my toddler in easily and then swivel it back and click/lock it in place. There’s no swivel on the Clek Foonf, meaning if my toddler is not cooperating and won’t climb into the carseat, it’s much more difficult to have to lift a struggling toddler up and over than it is to lift straight in and then swivel/click. Part of the swivel that was also nice is that the carseat easily lifted out of the car so if you have a quick stop at a store and the baby is sleep, you just lift the whole carseat out, put it in a shopping cart and the baby continues to sleep. With the Clek, you won’t be lifting it in and out, so you have to wake the baby for every stop. Maybe the loading will get easier, we’ll see, but I can’t imagine it will get easier that that beautiful Orbit swivel.
Has anyone had the Orbit G3 toddler seat tested? If that came back clean I would most likely go with that. Otherwise, assuming Clek comes back clean, it’s the Clek. It’s built like a tank.
I have the Clek Foonf and can’t seem to get it straight either. It still seems not to move a lot though. I had it checked at right start where I purchased and they said I installed it correctly, but then I had to take out and put in our nanny’s car, and when I put it back in, it is now super crooked and I’m not sure what I did differently. I can’t figure it out. I might have take it to the CHP. It is a tank though, and my tall son has a ton of foot room, which is awesome! Taking it on a plane next week!
I was hoping for a carseat that I would be able to take on a carseat, but it’s not going to happen. I’ll have to get a harness. The Clek Foonf is much to heavy for me to wheel around so I’ll have to make other arrangements.
Yep, I will be wheeling it around! At least I will probably burn some calories…
Did you get in touch with Clek about drift? Initially, I had the same thought as you, but then thought (when I saw that it was automotive fabric) that maybe it was completely bathed in FRs itself. I wrote to them to ask specifically about what kind of treatment, if any, was on drift vs crypton, but got no response. I also contacted crypton for more info – no response from them either 🙁 If you have specific info that drift is free of chemicals, I will buy that in a heartbeat…so I hope so. (even though, part of me wonders, if the non-brominated FRs will eventually prove to be just as harmful in other ways…the way that BPA substitutes still suck)
I do not have any specific info. All I have is that there are supposed to be no brominated or chlorinated FRs on the product as a whole. I only know that drift is free of Crypton. And I have no information that there is anything that speaks against Crypton; in fact, it is Greenguard certified, which is great. But I am a less is more kind of person. If something gets dirty, I like to scrub it and if I don’t fully understand what something is made of, I don’t want it. I don’t have time to research Crypton, but I’ll bet many have and could provide you with more information. And the Crypton adds a very big chunk to the cost. Finally, I have absolutely no reason be believe that Clek is anything but up-and-up regarding what they are and are not using. The seat is a tank and I feel my child is well protected in it. That being said, however, I avoid foam in my home like the plague and have for years (long before baby and I had done foam testing on furniture long before baby as well) and on the rare occasion that I have to buy it, I will never not test it now because sadly my faith has been shaken.
I personally think ALL FRs are harmful. For sure it will turn up that one of the alternatives to Tris and Brominated FRs will be just as harmful. The sad reality is that there isn’t an option for no FRs unless you replace the seat cover (which can’t be done on the Clek).
This totally stresses me out. I can’t get the orbit tight enough on him (I guess bc we don’t have the base? I read a review about how someone else couldn’t get it tight enough without swiveling it, and there is still slack in the seatbelt when i pull it as tight as it goes) which is obviously even more unacceptable than FRs since he would fly out in an accident…I think i’ll have to buy the foonf until he grows into orbit, and the orbit cover from nollie for that point…Argh. I HATE THIS.
I highly doubt the Orbit G3 would come back any different than the other models. The only way it would is if the non Oeko Tek foam supplier didn’t use Tris – which would be ironic. I don’t trust them anymore.
Glad to hear the Clek is a tank!! I hear you, the swivel on the Orbit is the best thing about the Orbit.
Anyone heard anything on Nuna Pipa results with the Duke testing??
I ended up purchasing the nuna this week, so I too am curious to see if anyone has tested it yet. Has anyone tested or know about the chemicals in the peg perego? I’m second guessing my decision about the nuna now, and I’m driving myself nuts.
I did email the Duke folks directly and left a vm. I doubt they can comment but I’m hoping they might be able to let me know if they have tested a Nuna and if it came back positive for any of the 7 they are testing.
I’ll definitely post what I hear back.
Maybe you could send in a sample of yours while we wait to hear if others have?
I haven’t seen anything about anyone testing the Nuna. If what they are telling us is true then it seems like a good option. Peg Perego is no better than any of the other big car seat companies.
My realization about car seats is that there is no good option. They all contain FRs. Even if one is supposedly less toxic than the other. All foam is going to be treated. It’s really sad that there isn’t a safe and FR free option on the market.
Sorry– just left a similar comment above in reply to Heavens123, but not sure that will be shown to everyone. Naturalbabymama if I just saved the money on the Orbit and bought a standard car seat (Chicco Keyfit, Graco, Britax, Safety First, etc) and had Sassy Stork make a new cover with organic fabric and organic wool stuffing I’d be finding a safe option, or would you worry about the plastic frames and bases? Is one of those standard options better than another in your mind? The whole situation is frustrating!
Thanks all (still haven’t heard back from Duke University about the Nuna. I did speak on the phone with a Nuna representative and emailed my request for them to either submit a Nuna car seat to Duke for testing, release some of their own third party results, or contact Duke themselves to see if they could learn about Duke results for their Pipa. Still waiting to hear back. In the meantime, this baby is getting ready to come so I’ve got to put an order in with Sassy Stork stat if we think that’s the ‘best’ option).
I wouldn’t be worried about the plastic frame and base containing harmful materials. The Chicco Keyfit tests low in terms of toxins that HealthyStuff tested for. They did test for all FRs and they do use a harmful FR but a car seat cover would fix that if you are comfortable going that route.
Wow, this post and string of comments is incredible. Thank you so much to everyone who has been in so much time, thought, effort and money.
We have the chicco keyfit 30 and britax marathon for our children – both awful, awful, awful. But after reading this, somehow, I feel better. Essentially there is no viable way around the FRs at this point, so I think minimal carseat use is optimal.
Not to freak anyone out … but there is another reason I feel pretty defeated on the car seat front … Our cars themselves are full—FULL—of FRs aside from anything found in child car seats. From everything I understand, the dangerous chemicals easily become air born. So regardless of the toxicity of a car seat, the child(ren) will still be breathing in the dangerous air.
It some ways, it is comforting knowing there is basically nothing we can do. Limit time in the car, don’t let you your baby be in the car seat otherwise (i.e. stroller time, etc), and just give them a very healthy diet full of raw plants, lots of water (to flush the system) and lots of time outside (sweating really helps release toxins).
Still, I’d love a perfect car seat option. There just doesn’t seem to be one. And I am not willing to do a single thing to compromise the safety of a car seat, as car accidents are a top cause of child fatalities, although I respect the choice the change out the cover. I wish we could just ADD a cover and help things that way.
I will continue to follow this thread. Again, thank you, thank you to everyone doing so much for this incredibly important issue! Well done, Naturalbabymama!
Yes, the toxins in cars have been talked about before on this blog. It’s true but I personally feel better knowing that my son isn’t sitting directly on FRs since the skin is your biggest organ. You can add a cover from Sassy Stork to your existing car seat. Also, letting your car air out for a few minutes before getting in – especially on hot days – helps with the toxins.
You are right, there is no perfect option right now and minimal car seat use is the best option. Hopefully one day that will change! Thanks for your nice comments about the blog!
Hi there – So we have Orbit baby as well (infant and toddler car seat AND stroller…) and understand there are NO great options right now for car seats. However , to sum it up as of today… what are your recommendations for Car Seat and Jogging stroller? If we have the orbit car seats and the foams tested in the cover are the problem with the flame retardants, then wouldn’t ordering an organic cover solve the issue or at least help? I saw that you ordered yours from Nollie. Do you think that’s the next best option? Thanks for all your insight here!!!
For jogging stroller I like Mountain Buggy. It’s not as nice as the BOB but it’s not toxic. It’s like a Toyota and the BOB is a Lexus 🙂 For car seats, I’ve been thinking that it literally might not matter, but if I had to choose I would do Nuna for an infant seat and Clek Foonf for the convertible.
There is a divide on people that want to do car seat covers and people that don’t. That’s a decision for each person to make based on how they feel about the safety of the car seat. It voids the warranty on the car seat. With that being said I did change the cover from Nollie covers and I think that is the best option for my family. It’s totally toxin free. I will say that working with Nollie Covers is frustrating and she is much slower than she says she will be. However, she is the only one who makes replacement covers for Orbit that I know of. Even though it was a frustrating experience working with her I am happy that I have my cover. Good luck!
Thank you Mamas for all the research!
I emailed Clek to find out what they use and this is the reply I received:
“Hi Michelle,
Thank you for contacting Clek! The 2014 Foonf seat, which uses non-halogenated chemistry, is free from all brominated and chlorinated flame retardants. Recently the organization healthystuff.org has tested the 2014 Foonf seat and found it to be free from all harmful chemicals, which you can read more about here: http://media.clekinc.com/2014/03/07/clek-2014-car-seats-officially-free-of-bromine-and-chlorine-based-flame-retardants-as-per-healthystuff-org/. Please check out their website in the upcoming months for their rating and more information.
Our seats are built upon a steel and magnesium sub-structure lined with EPP foam around the headrest and body of the seat. We do not add any flame retardants to the foam used in the seats (all materials have their own anti-flammability properties) and it is a urethane based foam which is the same type found in a vehicle seat.
The Crypton Super Fabric used in most of our seats is Greenguard Select Certified, meaning it meets stringent chemical emissions requirements, such as being screened for various volatile organic compounds.
Please keep in mind that, by law, all child safety seats must pass a smolder test as per FMVSS (Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards and Regulations) so they will all have some form of fire retardant in them in order for them to pass this test and be deemed safe.
We unfortunately don’t have any more specific information at this time.
I hope these answers help, but please let us know if you have any other questions!
Kind Regards,
Jean-Sébastien Côté
clek
Customer Support Team
866.656.2462″
I want to believe that the folks at Healthy Stuff would not be leading us astray, but I find it strange that they say they “do not add any flame retardants to the foam” but then say that “they will all have some form of flame retardant in them to pass this test and be deemed safe” and at the same time make the claim that:
Sounds like quite a contradiction.
The part that sounds strange to me is that they say they don’t have any more information at this time, yet they are still able to claim what isn’t in their carseats.
Here is the last response I received from Clek:
“Jean-Sébastien Côté (Clek Inc)
Aug 20 09:41 AM
Hi Michelle,
I’m sorry if my response was slightly confusing. What I meant is that since the EPP foam in the seat already comes with its own anti-flammability properties, we do not add any ADDITIONAL flame retardants to it, nor do we add any retardants to the fabric of the seat.
I hope that helps clarify things, but please let me know if you have any further questions!
Kind Regards,
Jean-Sébastien Côté
clek
Customer Support Team
866.656.2462”
Here’s a link to a presentation by Jeff Gearhart of The Ecology Center, where he gives info on the Clek on p.15. I don’t know what the threshold is for being able to state that something is “free” of a certain chemical but apparently it is not 0, or Clek wouldn’t be able to make those claims.
http://www.michigan.gov/documents/deq/Track1-Gearhart-Using_Chemicals_Policy_to_Drive_Green_Chemistry_438996_7.pdf
I think some other posters have already raised the question, but if they are not using a significant amount of chlorine or bromine, why aren’t they upfront about what flame retardant is being used in the foam.
Sigh…I was all set to get a Clek but really don’t like the evasiveness, and I’m not too keen on nano fabrics either. As coincidence would have it, a friend of my husbands offered a 2 year old orbit toddler seat to us yesterday and after much deliberation, I think I might just accept and buy the nollie cover, although it costs almost as much as the seat! and more than most other car seats!
@Michelle the clek “drift” fabric is NOT crypton – though I have yet to get an answer from them about whether it’s treated with FRs. I am calling tomorrow since they haven’t emailed a response yet. If it’s not treated with FRs we will probably go with that for the convertible, and the leather for the booster. I was almost all set on going the Nollie covers route but I’m slightly nervous like Heavens123 about using compressible materials for padding. on the one hand I think it’s probably not going to make much difference…on the other hand, the ultimate purpose of the seat is protection in an accident and I don’t want to risk it…I’m still torn. I think I’m set on the leather clek booster for my older (using the sale of the orbit to fund part of it) and then the fllo in drift for the younger…if they come back and say drift isn’t treated with FRs at any point in manufacturing. I’ll update with their answer.
Just as an fyi – not all car seats can have replacement covers (if you personally chose to go that route) and the way I see it, you can’t use a cover on Clek. Certain seats, like Orbit, the padding is under the cover with just a thin piece of foam in the fabric itself. Clek is the fabric is literally sewed to the seat.
I was considering buying the Fllo just now. My son has outgrown his Pavilion rear facing. Then I saw the Prop 65 warning on Amazon’s product description for the Fllo. I know it technically applies to all other carseats, etc. though I haven’t seen it posted for any other carseats on amazon. Anyways, it added insult to injury. I think I’m going to have to get a radian, or turn him forward facing just to avoid the offgassing of a freshly doused, brand new seat. http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00LC92G5A/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=30KSQTFPMXPI1&coliid=I3V02O2OWD5V3P&psc=1#productDetails
Also, I thought I saw something about this in the comments here, but I can’t find the comment so I’ll ask: Does the Baby Jogger City Mini have flame retardants? I scrimped and saved to buy a 2013 model to get away from my britax stroller. The city mini doesn’t have any of the tags that say it is compliant, and I read on a few other sites that they do not use flame retardants. But again, I thought I saw something in this thread and now I’m concerned. Anyone have a quick answer?
Thanks ladies!
Yes, stay away from the Prop 65 warning! Don’t buy anything that has that label.
Yes, the city mini claimed to not have FRs but then it turns out they did. A few people have called them and they have sent out replacement foam that they are claiming is FR free. I would give them a call.
Baby Jogger had flame retardants up until the end of 2013 I think, when the law was changed to no longer require flame retardants in strollers. I bought my Baby Jogger in early 2013 after reading that they had no flame retardants and after calling the company to confirm. As with other products I have bought, I was told the wrong thing. That being said, I recently emailed Baby Jogger to question them on this and they immediately — with no hassle — offered to send me a replacement cover at no charge (from the fire retardant free 2014 models). If you bought your Baby Jogger because you believed it had no fire retardants, as I did, then I would contact the company.
I know, I wish companies would just be upfront. It would make things less frustrating!
Sorry I meant to edit to read:
I want to believe that the folks at Healthy Stuff would not be leading us astray, but I find it strange that they say they “do not add any flame retardants to the foam” but then say that “they will all have some form of flame retardant in them to pass this test and be deemed safe”
Sounds like quite a contradiction.
Clek may not be adding flame retardants to the foam but it may be the foam manufacturer that is adding it. Like they said, all seats must pass a smolder test and if they are using foam it has to be treated with something. It’s just that they aren’t adding anything more to it. I can’t wait until Healthy Stuff publishes the results on Clek. I do think it’s good the most harmful FRs aren’t in the car seat though.
I have just submitted foam from the seat of my Clek to Duke.
Here is a link to the Crypton Fabric’s website that talks about the method used to make the fabric stain/mildew resistant. If you are concerned about nanoparticles then you would want to avoid crypton fabrics.
http://www.cryptonfabric.com/FAQs-INCASE.html
Thanks for sharing that link!
I called Clek and they said they’ll get back to me re: tanning/leather. They could not offer assurance re the drift fabric being free of FRs but I sent a follow-up to ask more.
Question: I know silver nano fabrics are an environmental concern. What is the concern with using them in a car seat beyond that…is there a concern about the particles detaching from the fabric and getting into the skin?
Michelle- Did you ever get results from Duke about Baby Jogger? Was it from the 2014 fire retardant free batch? Looking to see if the 2014 ARE truly free of FR’s. Thanks!
Hi, I just found your site. Awesome! Thanks for doing this. I’ve been thinking about doing a blog like this one day myself as I spend a lot of time researching things like this. So my 3 1/2 year old son is almost 40 lbs and has just about outgrown his car seat. I know you mention the Orbit seat but that only goes to 65 lbs. Do you know of any other non-toxic (relatively speaking) car seats for a higher weight limit?
thanks for everything!
I was on vacation for a few weeks, sorry for the delay in getting back to you. Orbit isn’t what they claimed so I personally wouldn’t go out and buy one. As far as I know there isn’t a truly non-toxic seat on the market but Clek doesn’t used the worst of the worst FRs. I would look into them, I think they have high weight limits and the seat itself looks very substantial.
Thank you so much for this — so helpful in trying to sort through the haze of chemicals. My head is spinning trying to come to a reasonable option and I was hoping for some thoughts. I have an almost 4 year old, who could stay in a convertible for a bit longer for sure, or soon graduate to a booster. Unfortunately, her current convertible is a Britax — we have one in each of our 2 cars. I also have just-turned 1 year old twins who are ready to move into convertibles (they have been in Graco infant seats to now – ugh). We have one minivan where room isn’t as much of an issue, but also have a Subaru station wagon that doesn’t easily fit 3 across (apparently, even the Dionos are an issue, but I want to confirm that again). So, I’m trying to find the best combination of either 2 convertible seats + a booster or 3 convertibles (perhaps one set of each combo) without having to buy (gulp) 6 new car seats. I’ve read the posts about certain seats being good as long as you replace the covers, but if I’m going to have to buy somewhere between 4 and 6 new seats, I’m not sure I can also stomach buying expensive custom made covers. I tend to drive myself crazy with this stuff, but my husband always reminds me, we can’t eliminate all of this stuff, we just have to do our best to minimize it. Given all that, what do you think my best options are?
I honestly wish I could offer some advice but I don’t know about sizing on car seats. Maybe someone else on this thread does. I think Clek is pretty big?
So here’s an idea that hasn’t yet been posted here – what about ordering a European car seat from amazon.CO.UK (or other european website) and having it shipped here, thus avoiding the crappy US laws re: flame retardants? I’m assuming these laws are not the same in the UK? I just tested out the UK amazon site by choosing a random European car seat on their site (from several brands I’ve never heard of here) and they will ship the seat to the US for about $80 (50 british pounds). Not bad. I haven’t yet researched the European car seat companies, though. Some of the brands I’m seeing include “Cosatto,” “Bebe Style,” “Bebehut,” “TecTake,” “Uberchild,” “OBaby,” “Concord,” “Apramo,” “Recaro,” and Ferrari (same as the car?!). Anyone heard of these/know anything about them? I will start researching… P.S. Thanks to naturalbabymama for creating this blog, and thanks to all the useful commenters too!
I’ve read that people have tried doing that and their seat was confiscated at customs. Not sure if that’s true or not. I would for sure email and find out which, if any, FRs are being used.
Also, a question: does anyone know which infant car seat has the EASIEST-to-remove padding/upholstery? I am thinking of taking the suggestion of just buying a regular car seat and ordering an organic replacement cover. I’m just hoping to find a car seat model where the whole toxic mess comes off in one piece and I’m not having to like, strip foam off plastic. Thank you!
I was on vacation – sorry for the delay. So you definitely don’t want to strip any foam off. I have the Chico Keyfit and the cover comes off and some padding is attached to the base (I believe). The padding inside the fabric is minimal. That is how my Orbit toddler seat is also. Don’t mess with anything attached to the base, I see that as being a serious safety issue.
I don’t have any experience with the others, but the Orbit cover is extremely easy to remove. I’ve removed mine from the G2 several times for cleaning and for testing the foam. The only foam that has been tested to show retardants is inside the fabric, so if you take the fabric cover off, you should have no more flame retardants in the seat.
Do the companies you listed for wooden toys all use non-formaldehyde glue? Thanks
Yes, none of them use glue that has formaldehyde! That was one of my main concerns and I made sure each company used safe glue. Sorry for the delay, I was on vacation with very little internet access.
Here is a link to a NIH publication on nano silver and concerns surrounding it’s use.
http://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/121-a220/
Interesting!! Thanks for sharing.
Just an update re Clek / foonf and the drift fabric. I wanted to know more about FRs on drift, and also, how the leather is tanned (that would NEVER have occurred to me). I asked if I could contact the manufacturer of drift to find out about what FRs might be used if any, since I’m not comfortable with the nanotechnology in the Crypton fabrics, and Clek responded with this:
“Thank you for contacting Clek! We unfortunately don’t have contact information of the automotive supplier that fabricates the Drift fabric used in our seats at this time. As I mentioned over the phone, we cannot not make the claim that our Drift Foonf Convertible Seat models as being free of brominated and fluorinated flame retardants as only the Crypton models have been tested by healthystuff.org. However, our Drift Oobr Booster Seat models were previously tested and found to be free of the same retardants, so that may help give you a better idea.
Having said that, I understand that you are uncomfortable with the technology being used in the making of the Crypton Super Fabric, but want to reassure you that this fabric is Greenguard Select Certified, meaning it meets stringent chemical emissions requirements, such as being screened for various volatile organic compounds, and is an extremely safe and child friendly fabric. You can read more about this at these links:
http://www.cryptonfabric.com/Crypton-Fabric/
http://media.clekinc.com/2014/03/07/clek-2014-car-seats-officially-free-of-bromine-and-chlorine-based-flame-retardants-as-per-healthystuff-org/“
and one more follow-up, re leather from Clek/foonf:
“I have inquired with our design team about the leather tanning process and will get back to you once they have some information that I can pass along.”
This was August 27, after I called a few days earlier and then emailed a follow-up. I’m not holding my breath.
Wouldn’t a leather seat, even if tanned in a not-ideal way, still be better than a fabric seat bathed in FRs? I can’t comfortably afford the leather foonf but we will stretch to make it happen if it’s a better choice than the FR fabric…we’ve decided against going with a Nollie cover because although on the one hand it seems like it would be just as safe, as another poster pointed out, those covers were not used in safety testing, and the ultimate function of a car seat is crash safety. I feel like they probably would be just as safe but just don’t want to risk it, so trying to decide on next best option.
If anyone wants to weigh in, I think the best options (we are going with a Clek) would be:
-leather seat
-drift seat
-crypton seat
Thoughts?
This blog and the comments are phenomenally helpful! Thanks to Naturalbabymama and all the parents who’ve put so much time and energy into sorting through all of this. I’m wondering, if I were to buy a “cheaper” infant car seat and get an organic cover from Sassystork, which car seat should I go for? Or does it matter? Graco and Britax for example both claim to be making positive change and limiting their use of FRs, but I don’t know which is better/worse. Eek! Unfortunately, budget does in fact have to dictate a lot of my decisions.
That’s what I would do. I don’t know if any is better or worse than other, they claim to be making changes but they are doing a PR campaign and still using FRs but just getting rid of the really bad ones.
Thanks for the info! I did a review of nontoxic car seats on my blog as well at http://growing-green.org/?p=22
I’m in need of an inexpensive car seat that our daughter won’t be in much. Any thoughts on what would be the best of the bad? I’d like to keep it under $100, if possible.
I wish I did, but I don’t. All you can do is find a couple seats in your price range then give them a call. Ask which FRs they use and then ask if their seats have any PVC, lead, heavy metals or phthalates.
Just an update for those who are interested, from Clek, re leather, NOT at all forthcoming which makes me think it’s crap leather. I’m not going to get leather, I’m going to get drift or crypton:
“Sorry for the delay in my response as I was trying to find a good answer for you. Unfortunately, we don’t have any information concerning the leather tanning process at this time and are not authorized to provide the name or location of our supplier. I apologize for the inconvenience, but will make sure to pass on any new information should we receive it.
Please let us know if you have any further questions.
Kind Regards,”
Yeah, that’s what I figured but it’s good to have an answer – well a non-answer 🙂 Non-answers usually give you your answer!
I have just read *almost* ALL of these comments during free time over the last two days. So thankful for this blog and the research all of these mamas have done. My son is almost three. I want to keep him rear facing until four, but he’s at the height limit for his Britax Pavilion, which means we need a new seat. Orbit is out. Diono is out. Clek Fllo? I didn’t see that anyone had any Duke results for the Clek foam. I’m also unlcear about whether or not the Drift fabric is a yay or nay (better than the Crypton?). I’ve been debating and procrastinating for MONTHS. Meanwhile my little man has been sitting in that toxic trap (Britax) regularly as we live in Los Angeles (ack!), have no outside space to play, and are basically carbound (double ack!!) if we want to go play anywhere outside. Oy. Once you become aware of all of these toxins in everything from clothing to couches, mattresses, baby products, all of the MDF furniture, flooring, vinyl flooring and bathrooms, perfumes, cleaning products, make up, chlorine and bromine (etc.) in swimming pools, EMFs (which there is no escaping), on and on.. one door leads to the next, one stomach drop after the next as a new potential hazard is revealed, more and more anxiety and sleepless nights worrying about the extent of the damage done. We always do research and try to make the very best choices, but naturalbabymama, your experience with Orbit is the perfect example of putting trust into what you have to believe is the best option, only to be let down. It’s ridiculous. And this flame retardant thing in our homes.. to think that it all started because of smokers in the 70’s and some idiot lawmakers in CA. Sorry for the rambling. I just don’t understand any of it. Why do this to us. Why so many chemicals IN EVERYTHING. And why don’t we have MANY affordable NON-TOXIC options. ugh! Ok back to the matter at hand. Does anyone know anything more about the Clek foam (not just that one sample from the headrest)? Any more info about the Drift fabric being “safer” (ha.ha.)? After reading all of these posts, I’m wondering how effective a Sassy Stork cover would be on my Pavilion, if I just bite the bullet and turn my little man forward facing (yikes! He’s a string bean – tall and 29 lbs.). I’d love any input. Thank you!!!
I hear you, the amount of toxic products in our lives is beyond stressful. Someone submitted a test to Duke from Clek in the last few weeks. I would imagine that we will hear something in the next few weeks if you can wait. The Drift is made from automobile fabric and they can’t guarantee it to be free from the most harmful FRs. It makes me nervous that they say that.
Clek says they don’t use chlorinated or brominated fire retardants. If they’re making that claim then they’re making it for the fabric as well aren’t they?
They only make that claim fully for crypton, which has been independently tested…not drift. They say THEY don’t add any BFRs, but they can’t guarantee the mfr of drift does not. He said so far as they knew they were free of them, but since they don’t test, they can’t make the claim officially. And they won’t release contact information for the mfr.
I have the Clek Foonf in Drift and you can keep your child rear facing for a very long time in it. I do not remember the exact weight limit, but it was very high, but you should check their website and verify the exact number to see if it meets your needs. I opted for the Drift for three reasons: 1) Although all the other fabric options with the Crypton are Greenguard certified, I am a less-is-more kind of person. I’m happy to scrub out messes from fabric and prefer to have no treatments, even if it was organic. 2) There is a very big price difference. 3) The dark color kind of blends into the back of the car. Although I am not aware of car seat thefts, since it was a very large purchase for me, I opted to go with something boring that kind of blends in.
As for the foam, I have sent in a sample to duke from the seat of the car, but am not expecting results back for awhile.
The seat is built like a tank and is made in North America, addressing my safety concerns. It did not fit in the center rear seat as my Orbit did. We had to move it to the right side rear seat and I had it installed by a car seat inspection station. It’s not that the seat was so big, but with the Orbit we had a small base, larger seat. The Clek doesn’t have a base. I preferred the seat in the center as I believe it’s safer, although it is very tall and the visibility was limited, so having it on the rear right makes the visibility good again. I really miss having the swivel of the Orbit, but apart from that I have been happy with the Clek so far (pending foam results). I will also add that it sits rather high and I have found that this provides great visibility for a toddler, who can enjoy looking out the window and seeing the sights.
I should also add that Clek is one of the high end items (not just in car seats) that seems to be price fixed: same price everywhere, no coupons, no sales. Sometimes you can find websites that offer these high end items with an incentive to get you to buy from them, i.e. a free set of bags or HEPA filter if you buy a vacuum from their website — and sometimes you can get Bed Bath Beyond to apply their 20% off coupon, even though it says no on the coupon. I got mine from Amazon, because if you don’t like it they offer no hassle free return shipping.
I have test results from Duke! My foam sample from the part of the seat the child’s back leans against came back as not containing any flame retardants. Which means 1) it either doesn’t contain FR or 2) it contains a FR Duke wasn’t testing for. Hope this helps 🙂
Which seat did you have tested? Great news.
Would anyone be willing to share their Duke results on Orbit? I have been in touch with a local natural/organic baby store that still carries Orbit and I’m trying to make them understand my point about how it DOES contain Tris and should be avoided. The store says that Orbit has told them “one blogger had their seat tested and is claiming these results, but won’t share them”. Anyway, let me know. kmyers333 at yahoo dot com.
I’ll send you mine this week. Orbit knows it’s more than one person which is why they are buying some seats back. It would be so much better if they would just be upfront about things!
Can you tell me more about Orbit buying seats back? How do I get them to buy mine back? I have receipt, etc. and it’s from 2012. Thanks.
I sent an email then they called me and asked to buy back. I actually declined since I have a cover for it. I know they aren’t offering to everyone and they have said no to several people. Try calling or emailing.
I emailed them and they wanted my third party test results!!! Someone else said they were not even asked. They mentioned that Duke had mentioned not to share th results. Were you asekd for your test results?
I don’t think they asked for my results.
Many people have posted the Duke test results for their Orbit in the comment section here. I’ll send you my form directly as well.
Thanks so much! I have the PDF from Laurie. I will keep everyone posted. Hope this incites positive change. Thanks so much, naturalbabymama, for this blog and for fostering this community.
I just got my results back for Duke showing chlorinated tris in both the infant and toddler orbit seats. Let me know if you still need results and I can send them…
Can you send me the results? This is frustrating.
[email protected]
Awesome and super helpful blog. Though so frustrating to read all this stuff. I have a few questions:
1) Heavens123 – have you heard back from Duke about the Clek test? I desperately need to buy a new seat!
2) Anyone have news on whether the Drift fabric is treated? Or rather, what it is treated with?
3) I read about Crypton and it seems they use a chemical bath, which includes the flame retardants, to completely coat all the fibers that they then use to make the fabric:
http://science.howstuffworks.com/innovation/everyday-innovations/crypton-super-fabric1.htm
Since Crypton says their fire retardants are non-halogenated, that means no fluorine either, right? What could they be using then? Does anyone know of any independent testing of Crypton?
Thanks!
It doesn’t seem like Clek has said / seems to know / or is willing to release any info on their Drift fabric other than it’s the same fabric used in automobiles. They also won’t confirm it’s free of the worst FRs like they do with the Crypton fabrics.
There are a lot of different FRs out there, all of which are toxic to some degree. As another person pointed out, what is replacing the worse FRs today will probably become the worse ones tomorrow.
Thanks for sharing that link on Crypton.
So Jean from Clek told me over the phone that they couldn’t claim drift was free of all brominated FRs bc Clek hasn’t tested it. So I wrote to ask for the contact info for drift which naturally they won’t provide. But he said the oobr in drift was tested as free of them, if that helped. Yes it did…but I wanted to see the test results. Here’s what I got back (see below).. So, I think I’m going with crypton, despite my extremely numerous reservations about it. It may turn out to be toxic but at least it is certifiably free of what we KNOW to be toxic (brominated FRs) though I have such angst about all the other crap in that fabric….maybe drift is actually better….sigh.
>
> I unfortunately don’t have a link to that specific test, but I can provide you with a news clipping from June which speaks about all components of our seat’s being free from all brominated and chlorinated flame-retardants: http://www.examiner.com/article/cancer-causing-flame-retardants-used-on-most-child-safety-seats
>
> I hope this helps, but please let us know if you have any further questions!
>
No, I am not expecting Duke results for another couple of weeks at least. Clek says no chlorinated or brominated flame retardants, so that would include both fabric and foam.
Wouldn’t the Greenguard certification be considered independent testing of the Crypton fabric? Maybe I’m being naïve, but I feel a lot safer with the Greenguard label than I do about things like the Drift fabric where we really don’t know what’s actually in it.
Thanks for all your replies! I am getting increasingly frustrated, and more intrigued by the idea of the Nollie Covers at this point, if only I can convince my husband…
Here’s Clek’s reply to me, confirming the same stuff about Crypton and Drift:
Thank you for contacting Clek! The 2014 Foonf seat, which uses non-halogenated chemistry, is free from all brominated and chlorinated flame retardants. Recently the organization healthystuff.org has tested the 2014 Foonf seat and found it to be free from all harmful chemicals, which you can read more about here: http://media.clekinc.com/2014/03/07/clek-2014-car-seats-officially-free-of-bromine-and-chlorine-based-flame-retardants-as-per-healthystuff-org/. Please check out their website in the upcoming months for their rating and more information.
The Drift models are made with an automotive grade fabric not unlike you find on a standard vehicle seat. While the material had been previously tested with past year’s models, which were also found to be free of brominated and fluorinated flame retardants, we do not wish to make an unsubstantiated claim concerning the 2014 Drift models as they have yet to be tested by a third party.
Our seats are built upon a steel and magnesium sub-structure lined with EPP foam around the headrest and body of the seat. We do not add any flame retardants to the foam used in the seats (all materials have their own anti-flammability properties) and it is a urethane based foam which is the same type found in a vehicle seat.
The Crypton Super Fabric used in most of our seats is Greenguard Select Certified, meaning it meets stringent chemical emissions requirements, such as being screened for various volatile organic compounds.
We unfortunately don’t have any more specific information at this time.
I hope these answers help, but please let us know if you have any other questions!
Kind Regards,
Jean-Sébastien Côté
clek
Customer Support Team
866.656.2462
I ended up ordering the Crypton fabric because I just don’t trust drift. I don’t trust Crypton either, but it’s the best of the worst, for us. I was almost all set to get a Nollie Cover – after all, in many ways it seems like, if she is fully recreating the cover, why WOULDN’T it be just as safe as the toxic cover? But there’s that small voice in my head that says “cotton and wool compress over time, foam doesn’t.” If you don’t use the car seat often, they may not compress enough to do anything. Even if you use the car seat very often, the compression might really be minimal and not affect safety at all. But the ultimate purpose of the car seat is safety in an accident, and I decided that since there is no way to know if a (granted, purportedly similarly cushioned) cover could compromise the way the seat protects in case of an accident, I didn’t feel safe enough getting it. It’s a shitty choice!!! Potential issues in an accident (though I do think the risk is probably pretty slim), or definite chemical exposure 🙁 But, you can try to keep a very clean lifestyle that allows for continuous detoxing…that’s what I’m telling myself, anyway. I’m not happy with Crypton but I just didn’t feel quite safe enough about Nollie.
I posted this on a OBU thread on FB, but wanted to share here too – I last posted here right after I got my results but wanted to follow up after my conversations with Diono. I am very curious if others have Diono seats with positive results AND have reached out to the company. What responses have people received?
My Storm seat tested positive from Duke – no way to explain how mad and frustrated I was. I bought it after more than an hour overall of multiple conversations with people at Diono, including their Chief Safety Officer Allana Pinkerton, with whom I spoke extensively and was guaranteed repeatedly that NO chemical FRs were used on the fabric OR the foam in the storm & rugby seats, and she confirmed that the foam came to them FR-free too, explaining that the density made it inherently flame-retardant. I have now been going back and forth with her for quite some time, all summer really, sent her my results, have written several respectful/reasonable but very stern emails about my feelings on this. She was very responsive for a while, and the last I heard from her, she had met with the President of the company who was taking it very seriously and was going to contact Duke to find out more because apparently the results were different from all of their own testing. (Of course I asked to see their own test results, but have never been given anything.) That was a while ago, maybe a month if not more, and I followed up again a week or two ago asking what the status was and (for the first time) demanding a refund. I have not heard back and will email her again this weekend. One issue is I don’t know what seat to get next, since none seem to truly be safe, so it might be just a safe to keep the Diono at this point, but regardless I feel I (and anyone else who bought one for this reason) deserve a refund directly from the company because we purchased our seats based on false information they provided. I also find it almost comical that any explanation or justification of Ms. Pinkerton not knowing more about the chemicals in the seats is because that is not her area of expertise, she is the Safety Officer and focuses on installation, use, crash tests, etc. I had no issue responding to her that the chemicals in a seat are just as much a part of the safety of it as how it performs in a crash, you could argue even more so since the exposure is there daily versus the slim chance you will be in a serious accident. The disconnect about “safety” on this subject is astounding to me.
What tested positive from duke? just the foam or the fabric as well? I am curious, as ive seen it stated a few times that the FABRIC is free from flame retardents. Trying to decide if I can go with a Storm or Rugby Radian, or if I need to spend $200 more to go Foonf, since they are coming out with the infant insert soon
Duke is only testing foam. They aren’t testing any other fabrics. Another poster said that when she was going to purchase her Clek it had a prop 65 warning. Ugh.
What’s OBU? I’m very interested in finding ways to connect with other like-minded parents.
OBU is organic baby university, which is a great group on Facebook. Check it out and you can join to post questions to everyone as well as see others questions. Lots of great, knowledgeable, like-minded individuals.
OBU is Organic Baby University on Facebook 🙂 It’s a good resource!
Hey Erin – Duke is only testing foam so unfortunately I haven’t been able to have a third party test the fabric. I am dying to see an independent test of the fabric!
I agree that to each their own with comfort level on safety, but thinking that the pu foam in the seat cover is more effective in a crash seems a bit of an overreach to me. We had a graco snugride infant seat and after only about 2 months of use, the foam started deteriorating (and would end up on my lo’s clothes – sadly I didn;t know about all the FR’s back then). It was pretty thin and flimsy and definitely compressible/susceptible to deterioration.
From what I can gather, the foam is more for comfort than anything else, except for the seats that have headwings with soft foam air cushions like on the maxi cosi pria (which we currently have and I finally broke down and after removing the cover already, removed the foam headwings because I was having major autoimmune reactions (and sadly still am). We have an older car with cloth seats that sits on the street and gets hot and the car seems to have absorbed the nasty chemicals, probably from the heat they turned into even nastier chemicals, sigh. The way I see it though, is that most car seats don’t have this headwing cushion feature and yet are considered safe. I also found the foam in the cover is generally very thin and the synthetic fabric on the maxi cosi pria is easily compressible, so not sure why that would be an issue with say a nollie cover. If your child is strapped in tightly it shouldn’t matter if the material has compressed. The straps and the design of the hard seat are what matter the most in a crash.
We recently got a hand me down orbit and are awaiting a nollie cover and going to try that option and see how it goes, since my homemade pria cover is in serious need of some professional help and I couldn’t find anyone who will make one for the Pria model.
It’s a terrible choice to have to make regardless, in trying to protect our children and ourselves, between toxic chemicals and safe car seats. And seeing how my now 1 year old has always hated to be put in either infant or toddler seat, and how he has often throw up after being placed in it, I started being less inclined to take him anywhere as a result, but that’s getting a lot more difficult now that he is getting older. I should be able to have an option that is both safe in a crash and non toxic. And if a replacement cover is the only option I’ve got (albeit a very expensive option), then I’m going to take it so I can make my child safer for the rest of his life.
Well said – I totally agree!
Just got off the phone with Phil & Teds about the Mountain Buggy car seat. Sorry if someone already posted about this I don’t have time to read everything. They said their new car seat does NOT have any flame retardants. It has a naturally flame retardant nylon fabric and EPS foam (which they said is FR free, but probably has some other junk, of course). Right now on Amazon there are two companies selling a bundle of their Nano stroller with the infant seat for $359. I might splurge. In the meantime I’m going to use an old Graco shell with a Bokoo cover and some batting. Probably not as safe but we’re not planning on taking the newborn out for a few months anyway.
Good to know. I didn’t know they were coming out with a new car seat. Just as an FYI Diono also said their EPS foam didn’t contain FRs and it came back from Duke testing positive for Tris. Not saying this is the same but just wanted to bring it up to you.
Someone found someting on the Phil & Ted’s/Mtn Buggy site that stated they do test their EPS foams. So EPS foam is the hard styrofoam from what I learned–your Diono hard styrofoam tested positive? Or was it the soft memory foam stuff? The drawback to their new seats is they run very small–only 9 months. We’re tall folks and my son outgrew his Chicco Keyfit at 4-5 months so….not sure how long an even smaller seat would last.
That’s great to hear! I just saw on their website that the 9 months is an approximation. There is so slight confusion on their website, it says one place that the car seat can hold 4 – 35lbs or up to 29 pounds. .
It had to be the soft foam, Styrofoam isn’t treated. Styrofoam also isn’t used between the fabric in the cover. That’s the area for concern. What is Phil & Ted’s saying that they use in-between the fabric on the cover?
I just purchased a Phil & Teds, the newborn insert has polyurethane foam, so there is more than just eps foam.
Yes, EPS is hard foam. PU is the soft foam. Would you be willing to send in a piece to test at Duke??
Baby isn’t coming until April, so I haven’t used it yet. Was hoping the new car seat testing would be out by then and I could return it if need be. If no results for the Phil & Teds is out by then, then I will for sure send a sample in.
Anyone try these covers? MUCH cheaper. Not organic and I am not a fan about the anti-microbial thing (but even discovered that’s on my q-tips…seriously?). But much cheaper! I haven’t contacted them to see if they’d do an Orbit, but she says contact for anything you don’t see…
I guess I cannot post a link? The shop is Small Treasures Junction online…
I just wanted to post an update and yet another answer from uppababy. Today I called and was told the strollers that do not contain flame retardants have not been released yet. Sounds like they have not been made yet either. I was told the future strollers will be free from flame retardants. So disappointing because I actually really like their strollers. I can’t believe finding a flame retardant free/ non toxic stroller is just as difficult as finding a car seat. Does anyone know of a non toxic option, suitable for an infant with the front and rear option? I looked into city select from baby jogger but it weighs almost 30 pounds!
Hey Aly. Look into Phil & Teds/Mountain Buggy. All of their strollers do not use flame retardants, lead , PVC and BPA free. They test for Lead, Cadmium, Antimony, Chromium, Barium, Mercury, Selenium, Arsenic and Phthalates and comply with European, Australia, New Zealand, and American standards. I looked into a few strollers of their that are suitable for infants with front and rear facing options that are also Polyurethane free. The phil and teds Smart lux, promenade, vibe and the Moutnain buggy cosmopolitan fit that criteria. Others models might also, i jsut didn’t look into them. I am planning on getting the Smart Lux. If only i can figure out a car seat 🙂 I hope that helps.
Thank you Amy! I will definitely look into them.
This company is coming out with a car seat (already available to purchase in some places). It’s an infant seat only thru 9 months, but I’m still planning to get it. I do’nt think they have a toddler seat yet.
Anyone know if the car seat will be FR-free, too?
Here’s another seat that has come out that could be checked to see what chemical properties it contains. The cool thing about it is, it has been designed with a baby reminder alert system included into the seat. Not sure how many of you have heard about the many tragedies that occur every summer when children are forgotten in cars (our society has become way too busy for our own good), only to be found hours later, dead from hyperthermia (heat stroke). Well, these reminder systems set off an alert to remind the driver (parent, grandparent, nanny) that the child is still in the car. I’m really excited about this as we (forget me not USA and kids and cars) have been petitioning for years for the government to step in and make car makers install these systems themselves. If all car seats (or cars) do it, hundreds of children could be rescued before it’s too late. Yeh!
Oh, here’s the link, http://thefirstyears.com/sites/tfy/files/content/en_US/tfy/IAlert/support/IAlert-On-Sale-Press-Release-FINAL-for-PR-Newswire-7.18.13.pdf
What company is it?
Mtn. Buggy and Phil & Teds both have basically identical infant bucket seats coming out. Same price just different colors.
Here are a few excerpts from my email convos with Phil & Teds, and Mountain Buggy (which are, to my understanding, the same company now, and Phil & Ted’s “Alpha” car seat is identical to Mountain Buggy’s “Protect” car seat). They talked some about testing for lead and other stuff, but Amy above listed that for us already up above. =)
“No Phil and Teds or Mountain Buggy products sold in the USA have been treated with fire retardants, with the exception of the Nest Mattress foam and the Traveller inner mattress as they are overnight certified sleep products.”
“Neither the new Phil & Teds Alpha nor the Mountain Buggy Protect infant car seats contain any flame retardants. Materials used are an EPS foam (not polyurethane) and rip stop nylon fabrics which are not prone to burn inherently allowing them to pass global standards testing. Both products comply with NHTSA Standard Consumer Safety Specifications.”
Laurie no they claim it is chemically FR free and passes the tests due to flame resistant nylon (again not treated with FR). They also use EPS foam and they state that is also free from FRs. No one has tested them and can’t find crash data, but I will probably take the gamble. The seat looks like it is a European design and even the stroller adapters are the ones I think that work with the Maxi-Cosi seats. I think it has a stabilizer foot like the Nuna.
Check out the new Baby Jogger Vue.
Wish I knew Baby Joggers were free of flame retardant chemicals a couple of months ago! I needed an umbrella stroller and bought an Uppa Baby. I’m planning on replacing the seat cushion, as there are some organic cotton replacements available on Etsy.
I emailed Baby jogger and yes they are flame retardant free, but the representative said that the filling in the seats in polyurethane. So I don’t know what to make of that.
KAREN – I just spoke to uppababy today (we have a g-lite) and they said the FABRIC, at least, isn’t sprayed, but the interior foam probably is. What etsy sellers do new cushions? Or you just mean, something that goes over the current one? Thanks… SIGH I HATE ALL OF THIS> grrrr
From what I can tell, it is a new cushion. The sellers I’ve found have been in the UK, so they call them pram liners. I think the cushion is removable on the g-lite (which is what I have, too), so it looks like you’d just take off the factory one and replace it with one of the custom ones. TinyLily is one of the shops showing up now, although I found someone else when I searched before.
Just looked at them again, and they might be just liners. But, the cushion on the g-lite isn’t thick, anyway, so I’m sure you could get a custom made liner with extra padding if the liner wouldn’t be comfortable on its own.
…although then you’re not alleviating the problem, since the flame retardants are still in there…but i guess at least they’re further away…
I meant that you’d remove the Uppababy pad and replace with the custom made pad.
Have you checked out the Baby Jogger Vue? Its new and it is reversible and their spec sheet says it weighs 17.5lbs. It looks really interesting and looks like it will accommodate a baby pretty well. I wish they had it when my lo was born.
Also, I contacted Baby Jogger about a replacement for my city mini because it was purchased mid 2013, and they said that when the law changed in September of 2013, they switched over to non FR foam, and they are sending me a new seat that is FR free. I was really impressed. I simply emailed them, and they got back to me within a week, told me they would send a replacement seat and asked for the color and my address, and already confirmed shipment, it was that simple. Hopefully replacing the seat will be that simple!
As for Uppa Baby, I emailed them back in May of this year and this was the response I received -not very encouraging:
“Hello Michelle,
Thank you for your Inquiry.
Some flame retardants are required by law or they will not pass JPMA standards and would not be able to be sold. We hold our products to the strictest standards in the US, which are the California safety standards so please rest assured your child’s safety is our main concern and we take care to manufacture products that are safe and pass all standard
We stain resistance on fabrics we use Dupont stain defend.
What was phased out of the Teflon cookware was emissions of PFOA, which is an acronym for perfluorooctanoic acid, a manmade chemical that does not occur naturally in the environment and is rumored to be bad. On the other side, PTFE is the part of Teflon that is used commonly in many products such as Gore-Tex breathable rainwear, fabrics, medical implants and has been used in the stain guard of the G-Series. It does not pose a threat and the EPA states there is not a need for concern over this and there are no steps consumers need to take to avoid this. As always we here at UPPAbaby make safety our utmost priority and always make sure we exceed all standards set forth by the JPMA, including phthalate free products.
Uppababy products are certified by JPMA (Juvenile Products Manufacturing Association)
All of our strollers are tested to the following industry standards:
ASTM F 833-07 Standards for Carriages & Strollers
16 CFR 1303 Lead content in surface coatings
CPSIA 2008 Improvement Act (Ban on Lead in substrates, Ban on Phthalates)
ASTM F2194-07 Bassinet Standards
CARB ATCM (California ) Formaldehyde emission levels
I hope this is helpful
Thank you,
Susan
Customer Service | UPPAbaby
781.413.3010
http://www.uppababy.com“
Baby Jogger is also sending me a new seat with no hassle whatsoever…but just when I start to feel impressed by their quick, responsive and friendly customer service, I am reminded that I bought that stroller in the first place because it was fire retardant free. Someone, somewhere lied to me — and then I’m not so impressed after all. My baby has been sitting in that chemical crap for two years — crap that I was assured wasn’t in there.
Exactly, and all you can do is go on their word that it is different this time… which is hard to do sometimes.
Before I threw out the old cover, I took a sample of the foam and will send it in to Duke when the slots open up next month. I wish there was a way to get a piece out of the new seat, but it would be very hard to do without damaging the cover.
It can be hard. Could you do it from underneath then sew it back up? That’s what I did with my Ergo 🙂 No pressure, if you don’t want to rip it apart I totally understand. I’m also super curious if it really is FR free.
Interesting about the stain resistance!
Would you be willing to send in a piece of the foam from the new seat they are mailing you to Duke?
I will send in samples from my Baby Jogger stroller seats- this will be my first time sending in samples. I should have done it with the maxi cosi pria, but I was a little too overwhelmed at the time, and really didn’t want to handle the foam/open it up because of the allergic reaction I was having. I don’t seem to have a reaction to the stroller, of course it’s not used in an enclosed space. It will be interesting to see what the results are.
In my search for a cover for the Maxi cosi pria 70 (has headrest), I came across this etsy shop that makes a cover for the graco nautilus 3-1. I couldn’t tell if it’s just a cover or a full replacement cover. Also, it doesn’t look like she uses organic fabrics, but maybe its possible to provide fabric to her. She wont make a cover for the Pria 70 though.
I wouldn’t recommend a Pria 70 if you want to replace the cover, unless you can make one yourself. Also, the headwings foam is wrapped in plastic (not sealed though) and glued to the seat/separate from the cover, making it a bit more difficult to deal with.
I too am having a bad experience with Nollie Covers. I did the rush shipping and on my email receipt is says that it will typically ship in 2-3 weeks. It has been 4.5 weeks, and I sent an email about a week ago asking if my order had shipped, and have not received a reply. I went into it knowing that this could happen thanks to your review, but at almost $400 for a cover it’s pretty ridiculous. I really wish there were more options for covers for toddler carseats besides Britax! Maybe someone in etsyland is listening…
In my frustration I decided to email the NHTSA (National Highway Traffic Safety Administration), and ask them to mandate car seats be free of toxic flame retardants. Probably my one email doesn’t mean much to them, but if others are interested in writing to them, who knows, maybe we can make a difference. I received an automated reply, with a case #, but it’s a start.
This is the page with the link I clicked on to email them:
http://www.nhtsa.gov/Contact
You can also go straight to the contact form here:
http://www.nhtsa.gov/nhtsa-dpmextn/jsp/email/email_nhtsa.jsp
This is the email address from the reply: [email protected]
Well they don’t mandate that these companies have to use FRs so I’m not sure if they would be willing to mandate that they be free of them. What they mandate is that the car seats have to smolder and not catch fire. The car seat companies choose to use foam which is highly flammable and then have to use FRs to make them not flammable. A car seat company could come out with a seat that uses cotton and wool and it would meet the standard and no FRs would be used. The cost would surely be much higher for the companies over buying cheap foam. I do agree change needs to be made. It never hurts to email and maybe one day they might actually be changed because of our demands.
In my frustration I decided to email the NHTSA (National Highway Traffic Safety Administration), and ask them to mandate car seats be free of toxic flame retardants. Probably my one email doesn’t mean much to them, but if others are interested in writing to them, who knows, maybe we can make a difference. I received an automated reply, with a case #, but it’s a start.
This is the page with the link I clicked on to email them:
http://www nhtsa gov/Contact
You can also go straight to the contact form here:
http://www nhtsa gov/nhtsa-dpmextn/jsp/email/email_nhtsa jsp
This is the email address from the reply: NHTSAHotline telesishq com
I stumbled across this blog a couple days ago, and am so happy I found it. Thank you naturalbabymama for making our lives easier! I’m in the market for a new booster seat and was excited to see this post. I thought I’d be able to read it and know exactly what the best option would be (in terms of least/non-toxic) but now I’m as confused as ever. Before reading this post I was committed to getting the Clek Oober. I also contacted the company asking about flame retardants in the Oober and got the same comment that Kati says on Sept 8. They have the following statement on their website: http://media.clekinc.com/2014/03/07/clek-2014-car-seats-officially-free-of-bromine-and-chlorine-based-flame-retardants-as-per-healthystuff-org/
So I guess my question is, based on that statement shouldn’t the Oober and Foonf be the best options out there? Are people questioning it because they haven’t actually seen results from Clek? Sorry I don’t have time to read all the comments in here, maybe this has been addressed. Thank you!
I don’t know much about Boosters but I think Clek would be a good option. It doesn’t seem that there is a perfect option out there. People are questioning Clek because yes we haven’t seen test results and also because of the fabrics they use (Crypton and the nano technology).
I haven’t heard anyone mention Nuna’s new stroller IVVI. The fabric is Oeko-Tex certified and I called and spoke with Betty who told me it had no FR. I bought the Nuna Pipa car seat and the IVVI stroller comes with the car seat attachments. The carry cot is sold separately and the pad is made of polyester fill. It’s pricey and I don’t even know if I will be able afford one but I know it’s out there. I have been following the comments for months now. Everyone has been very helpful. I thought maybe I can give back some info too.
Hi Liz, I also bought the nuna car seat and have been looking into the ivvi. Like you said it’s on the expensive side and also a bit heavy. I found out that Nuna is coming out with a smaller and less expensive stroller this fall. It’s called the nuna mixx, if you google it you’ll find some reviews. ; )
Thanks Aly, I did check it out.
Advice: is the Baby Jogger City Select a better option over the UppaBaby Vista? Baby Jogger Summit X3 over the BOB? And for carseats: Nuna Pipa for the infant seat and Maxi Cosi Pria 70 for the convertible? Best choices for what we have to work with?
For strollers both have FRs – Uppa & Baby Jogger. If you don’t want FRs then I recommend Mountain Buggy with no foam. That is also the jogging stoller I would use. BOB doesn’t have FRs but does have a coating on it to make it waterproof and I just read may have the Prop 65 lead warning on the box. I don’t know much of anything about the Maxi Cosi, I would still choose to either replace a cover on the seats that you can or do Clek. If what Nuna says is true then I would think they are one of the least toxic.
Follow up from last comment – if you went with Baby Jogger then I would call them and order or to find out where to buy from to make sure you are getting the new, supposedly FR free foam model. I have a hard time trusting foam so I personally would send in a sample of the foam to Duke before using it a lot.
Has anyone heard of this foam certification company? I just bought a sofa who uses foam they certify…http://certipur.us/pages/
It’s too bad car seat manufactures don’t utilize something like this.
Has anyone used Sassy Stork? Any feedback? They seem to be half the price of NollieCovers and all organic. Both of them are replacement covers. Thanks.
I know people that have used them and had great experiences. Much friendlier and faster than Nollie. Nollie is the only one who does Orbit though.
Yes! Just posted on here too, Sassy Stork now does Orbit and she was SUPER friendly, helpful, about a long turnaround and great product for a very generous price. I highly recommend her!!
..sorry tht was **month long** turn around
So are the flame retardants only found in the cover? What kind of foam or material is used in the body of the seat for protection? (Im trying to figure out of I should just do a replacement cover.) What companies dont void the warranty if the cover is changed?
I’m getting confused trying to read back through all the comments. Can someone maybe summarize for me: if I’m planning to replace the cover, what options are good for convertible and toddler booster seats (harness up to 100 lbs)? I’m looking at Graco Nautilus 3-in-1 and Britax Boulevard. Removing the cover is great, but I think they could have FRs in the hard EPS foam that is part of the head rest. See for example HealthStuff.org testing of the Graco MySize 65 (http://www.healthystuff.org/gracomysize_2014.php) But maybe it’s harder for the FRs to be released from the hard foam? Whatever I choose has to be one of the ones which an organic cover is available for. Thanks!
I’m not sure if you can actually replace the cover on the Britax. That is what another reader was saying. Most all the FRs in the seat are within the foam in the fabric. If you have a seat where you can just pull off the cover then pretty much all the FRs will be gone. That’s interesting about Graco though. I would try and find another convertible seat. The Orbit doesn’t have that large head rest thing, maybe find one that doesn’t have that?
Its really unfortunate that the Duke testing does not cover EPS foam (aka styrofoam).
Hi! Any update on the testing of the Clek carseats? Thanks!
According to Duke University, the seat of my 2014 Clek Foonf has tested positive for TDCPP.
I never say this, but OMFG! So much for the endorsement by HealthyStuff! The primary reason I bought my Foonf was their insistence that their products were free from harmful chemical flame retardants!
Is anyone interested in independent testing? How much does it cost?
When sign up for testing opens up again on November 1, I will submit two more samples from two different areas. I have already harvested them, wrapped them in foil and a plastic baggie. It is not necessary to cut anything or damage the cushion to access the foam — you may reach directly into the seat. If other people also have Clek, please send have your foam tested. Is my seat an anomaly? Are Duke University results trustworthy? Is there some other explanation? 🙁
I will send mine in! I really hope it is a mistake – particularly in light of HealthyStuff.org’s results.
For now, I may switch ours out for a Britax that I bought for our second car. 🙁
Did you wash your hands and/or wear gloves when you took the sample? If you didn’t, maybe it was contaminated. I’ve read (from EWG, I think) that touching items like keyboards, cell phones, and remote controls can leave residue of chemical flame retardants on your hands.
Yes, I washed my hands and was very careful in my collection. However, just to be sure, I will take two fresh samples using latex gloves that I will not remove from the box and put on until I am actually in the car. I will do the same with the foil and baggie. Let’s hope it is an error, because if it is not, then there is nowhere else to turn. If it is an error, we must encourage everyone to buy one as a way of showing support for the companies that are listening to parents’ wishes.
It sounds like you were super careful. When did you buy your car seat again?
2014, and it is a 2014 model.
Boo 🙁 Please keep us posted when you get your results back from the next few pieces.
WOW!!! Please let us know how your other samples turn out.
ARE YOU EFFING KIDDING ME???? i bought the fllo and oobr bc i thought it was the best option after the nollie thing – i will be COMPLETELY ENRAGED (as will many others) if this is true. but how could it not be true? can Duke be getting false positives? i should take some samples to send in from the fllo….
I was very, very careful in harvesting my sample, but yes, errors could be made. Contamination could have occurred either with me or at the lab. I believe someone else tested the headrest and got a negative. I will retest two different places. And anyone else who owns a Clek should also test, noting where the sample was taken from, so that we can get a consensus.
First let me say that I am very skeptical about all the claims from these companies, and I even emailed Jeff Gearhart from Healthy Stuff a while back to verify Clek’s claims and never heard back, which was concerning, but regarding the most recent results indicating tdcpp, I’ve been wondering, is it possible that dust from flame retardants present in the vehicle could end up in the car seat?
I mean it could but I also tested my Ergo which has been thrown all around my car and has sat on the seats of my car many, many, many times and the foam came back with no FRs. So I think it’s unlikely from the FR dust in the car. Getting a few more samples in will be the best way to know.
I think most of these companies do believe what they are telling us (maybe I’m just being naïve) but I think the issue might be the suppliers. However, there are several companies including Orbit who claim they third party test. If they actually did do that testing they should be able to tell if it’s there or not. At this point Orbit won’t release their third party testing which is suspect to me.
Yes, please send in samples. I’ve been in contact with Duke on an off over the past few months but I did email them last week about their testing procedures / ways they prevent contamination. They wrote back about another question I had and said they would write more this week about their procedures.
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Hi – my wife/I are expecting a baby in March and find all of this very confusing. We know that there is no perfect option out there, but want to find the car seat with the fewest issues.
It looks like once a baby is bigger Clek’s products are the best bet. For a newborn what is the consensus on the best option for safety and low toxicity? It seems that some have mentioned the Nuna and Phil & Ted’s. Has anyone verified that these seats are low-toxicity other than the manufacturers saying so?
There has been no samples sent in of either seat. I have felt like Nuna telling us what FRs they use is a positive. I have a hard time believing that there will be no FRs in the Phil & Ted’s because we have been told that before from other companies.
I called Clek and they said that an infant insert is coming out for their seats late this year! Maybe this will be the best bet for us?
Hi! I am so glad I stumbled upon your blog. I am trying to find a good solution for a car seat. My baby is currently in a Graco car seat with a sassy stork replacement cover over it (organic cotton/organic wool inside). But the problem is that bothering me a lot is that foam is exposed a little through the straps openings in the cover. It drives me crazy, but I can’t do anything about it. My son will soon grow out of Graco and I am planning to use Britax Roundabout, but thinking of replacing PU foam with natural latex foam (you can order a custom size cut from foam order for about $30) and also using Sassy Stork replacement cover. On Britax Roundabout the foam is not glued to the seat and thus could be replaced. I am just not sure whether this idea (to use natural latex) is too crazy. I have not idea how else one could avoid this toxic stuff. Any thoughts?? anyone?
I personally think natural latex (if organic ever better) is a great thing. So are you planning on taking the PU foam out of the car seat cover, replacing it, then putting the Britax cover back on and then putting the Sassy Stork cover on top of that? Just want to make sure I’m following it 🙂
On the Britax Roundabout the foam pad is not inside the cover. It is just a sheet of foam that simply goes on the seat and cover goes on top of foam pad. This foam is not glued or attached to the car seat in any way and can be easily removed, they even sell replacement foam pads on Britax website http://www.britaxusa.com/store/details/parts/roundabout-50/comfort-foam-5. So,yes, I am thinking of replacing foam with natural latex foam (using latex with exactly same dimension, it can me ordered at foamorder.com) and then placing Sassy Stork organic cotton/organic wool cover on top of it.
I looked on the http://www.foamorder.com page and see where you can order the latex seat pad. how do you ask them to size it according to grace snuggled sizing? i am a little concerned if i take the seat apart, i won’t get it back together properly and it’s the only seat we own. that said, the foam insert is sticking out on two sides. gross!
anyway, if anyone knows the exact size of the foam insert, i’d LOVE your help!
What car seat do you have? in mine (Britax roundabout) the foam pad is right underneath the cover.. when I take the cover off to wash it, the pad is right there, I can take it off easily. It’s not attached to anything. I measured it on all sides and on foamorder.com they can make it a custom cut precisely to fit your measurements. Now, with my infant car seat (Graco Snugride) there is a completely different story. I can’t take the foam pad off, since it’s the part of car seat. it is attached/glued to the seat. This one I can’t replace. What we did, we placed an organic cotton/organic wool cover over it and using it like that.
Your idea to replace the foam with latex is awesome!! I was wondering if replacing the foam worked out for you and if you are happy with the results?? I am thinking of trying it. My husband recently lost our old Britax Roundabout and I need a car seat asap for the new baby otw. After all this research, I think I may go with the newer Britax Roundabout and replace the foam and cover.
Tracy. I haven’t yet tried replacing the foam with latex foam. Our son is still in infant car seat, so I was looking into my options once he grows out for infant seat which is going to happen very soon. I was just throwing this idea out there to see what others might think about. I am glad that you find it awesome 🙂 The only thing – the latex they sell comes in soft, medium and firm and I was not sure what type to order as it has to be similar in firmness as the original Britax foam. My husband says to go with medium or firm, definitely not soft. But I am not sure.
Elena, Which Roundabout do you have – Roundabout G4.1, Roundabout G4 or Roundabout 50? have you contacted Sassy Stork to find out which Roundabout model they make the cover for?
Thank you,
-Olga
Olga, I have Roundabout Classic 50. Yes, I have contacted Sassy Stork and emailed her a picture of the car seat and she said it will fit my car seat. I am keeping my fingers crossed and hoping it will fit once it arrived (I ordered it already). I we were going back and forth emailing each other with descriptions, so hopefully it’ll be ok.
Personally, I’d love to avoid flame retardants all together, but in cases like the car seat, sometimes I can’t. When I call and ask what type of flame retardants companies use, and they are forthcoming, sometimes I can’t figure out if the chemicals is horrifying or fairly safe, considering. Does anyone know of a comprehensive resources that lists the flame retardants currently in use and their comparative safety? Thanks!
This is from Duke University, they send it out via email when they send you your foam results. I just copy and pasted it so the links probably aren’t working.
7 Common Flame Retardant Chemicals Found in Furniture
PentaBDE
PentaBDE is a commercial flame retardant mixture containing brominated chemicals called PBDEs (polybrominated diphenyl ethers). PentaBDE has been used for decades in residential furniture, but due to concerns over their persistence, ability to accumulate in humans, as well as their potential toxicity, the US began a phase-out of pentaBDE in 2005.
For more information on PBDEs, including pentaBDE, read the ToxFAQs summary created by the US Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry.
TDCPP
TDCPP, or tris (1,3-dichloro-2-propyl) phosphate, is an organophosphate flame retardant that is being used to replace PentaBDE. TDCPP, which is used as an additive flame retardant in resins, polymers, latexes, and foams, is most widely used in the US (annual estimations are 4,500-22,700 metric tons).1 There is evidence that TDCPP is a probable carcinogen and a developmental neurotoxicant2, as well as an endocrine disruptor in fish.
For more information on TDCPP, read
This Environmental Health Perspectives article,
This technical report published by California’s EPA in 2011, and
This factsheet from EPA’s Environmental Profiles of Chemical Flame Retardant Alternatives report on their Design for the Environment page.
Firemaster® 550
Firemaster® 550 (FM 550) is a mixture of brominated and organo-phosphorous flame retardants. It was advertised as a replacement for pentaBDE following its phase-out. Other than some limited testing carried out by the manufacturer, little information on the health effects of Firemaster 550 is available. However, a recent study conducted by researchers at Duke University and NC State found that some of the components in FM 550 bioaccumulate and act as an endocrine disruptor. FM 550 may also cause obesity, metabolic disruption, and increase the onset of puberty.
For more information, read this press release from NC State University on a recent study of Firemaster 550.
1 Meeker JD, et al. Urinary metabolites of organophosphate flame retardants: Temporal variability and correlations with house dust concentrations. Environ Health Perspect 121:580-585. (2013); http://dx.doi.org/10.1289/ehp.1205907
2 Dishaw LV, et al. Is the PentaBDE replacement, tris (1,3-dichloropropyl) phosphate (TDCPP), a developmental neurotoxicant?
Studies in PC12 cells. Toxicol Appl Pharmacol 256(3):281–289. (2011); http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.taap.2011.01.005
7 Common Flame Retardant Chemicals Found in Furniture
V6
V6 is a chlorinated organophosphate flame retardant that can contain TCEP as an impurity in the mixture. TCEP is considered a carcinogen.
TBPP
TBPP, or Tris-isobutylated triphenyl phosphate, is a mixture organophosphate flame retardants that do not contain halogens (e.g. bromine or chlorine). About 40% of the TBPP mixture is a chemical called triphenyl phosphate (TPP). Limited information exists on the health impacts of this mixture, but scientific studies have shown that TPP can have high acute aquatic toxicity.
EPA conducted a risk characterization for TBPP, click here to read their technical document from 2008.
MPP Mix
MPP, or methyl phenyl phosphate, is a mixture of organophosphate flame retardants that do not contain halogens (e.g. bromine or chlorine). Triphenyl phosphate (TPP) is also a primary component in MPP (see above for more information on TPP). Little information is available on the toxicity and levels of exposure to chemicals found in this mixture.
TCPP
TCPP is very similar in structure to TDCPP (see above) – it’s used as an additive flame retardant in resins, polymers, latexes, and foams, and is most widely used in the US (annual estimations are 4,500-22,700 metric tons).3 As a relatively new flame retardant additive, little is known about possible health effects.
3 See first footnote
Thank you! I got these from Duke too. If it’s not on this list, should we assume it’s not harmful, not as harmful, or unknown?
Well those are the most common so there could be others ones out there for sure. I would think that most companies would use the most common FRs unless they were going out of their way to use something less harmful. That’s just my opinion & a guess 🙂
For instance, I just talked with Peg Perego about the flame retardants used in their products, and they said they use a “Polyurethenic aliphatic phophonate” and I can’t seem to find information on the side effects of this.
Sometimes you have to break down the actual name and search Phosphorus flame retardants. Does this link help? I actually didn’t read through it (skimmed it quickly) but seemed to have a lot of info http://saferinsulation.greensciencepolicy.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/vanderVeen.pdf
Also, just so others know: I ordered the Baby Jogger City Versa, and found that they no longer are making it, so you cannot get a flame retardant seat for it. I inquired, to be sure, and they said they either used brominated flame retardants or Tris on it. *sigh* It’s going back. Now we need to find a new option with a reversible seat that will fold with the seat attached. Phil & Ted’s doesn’t make one, sadly.
Hi Laure, I have seen the phil and teds smart lux and the mountain buggy cosmopolitan and they both close with the seats still attached, though im not sure in both directions. Both seats are reversible and turn into a bassinet.
Ladies! Great news! Katie over at sassy stork on etsy now has a pattern for the Orbit baby infant car seat. For those of you not worried that a new cover will risk safety (like me), this is a GREAT option.
I was her first Orbit cover attempt and I must say she did an incredible job! Very reasonably priced too. I provided the materials that I bought from http://www.organiccottonplus.com (which btw LOVE this company– I bought all GOTs certified organic knit material from here too and sewed my son his onesies, but I digress). I bought the organic cotton batting and the fabric she requested (muslin and a heavier fabric like tweed I think) and then I think she only charged like $50 or something like that. Incredible. Highly highly recommend. Also she didn’t take forever like the Nellie lady mentioned elsewhere in these comments.
This is so great! Thanks for sharing. Hopefully she decides to make a toddler one someday too 🙂
If she had customers inquiring I’m sure she would!
I asked her several years ago and at that point she wasn’t doing new patterns for seats. I have actually been emailing her over the past few weeks to make me a cover for an infant seat we have and mentioned that you commented that she made a cover for your infant orbit seat. I asked her if she had thought about doing the toddler seat 🙂 I haven’t heard back yet.
Argh. We need to buy a convertible car seat TODAY. our kid has outgrown her infant one. I was about to click “purchase” on a Clek Foonf, and there is a California Proposition 65 warning. Someone, please someone, tell me what to get. We don’t want to doctor a seat with a new cover. This is so frustrating! We are purchasing a sofa through Ekla, and they, btw, are WONDERFUL. Too bad they can’t make us a safe car seat!
That is CRAZY that there is a prop 65 warning!! Did you call the company to ask why. If that’s the case then I seriously have no idea.
that is so frustrating – I have 2 Clek seats that I purchased locally – and NO prop 65 anywhere. That was in June. Not that it helps anything, my understanding is that the Prop 65 labels are a general “cover your ass” legal statement for companies. They put it on, they don’t have to worry about anyone suing them for non-compliance should something in their chain of production go faulty. Disappointing, but true. Their product may be completely safe, but to avoid lawsuits, they just put it on. For example, Prop 65 warnings must be put on furniture that may contain dust. Dust. I live in California, there are big Prop 65 signs on every store you walk into (including my natural hippie integrative pharmacy). Including Disneyland. It’s unavoidable.
That’s good to know that you bought two with no Prop 65 labeling.
I know a lot of companies just put it on to cover themselves because the fees charged to them are so high if they are found to not be in compliance. Maybe I’ll give Clek a call to see what is going on.
Hello,
I am wondering if anyone has had the Phil and Ted’s foam tested. If you call Phil and Ted’s (Mountain Buggy) you will find that the customer service folks are not well versed in issues discussed her. One person I spoke with recently did not know what poly foam even was, let alone what strollers contained it. Also, they have given people, including me, conflicting info. For instance, someone posted not long ago that they told her the Vibe did not have foam, but in fact I have learned that it is a foam and polyester blend. The company does not have a “list” of materials for each stroller. They are confused. I am sending my foam from the Navigator seat to Duke this week. I will report asap on results. I hope this is not another Orbit situation.
How frustrating. This industry needs to get some serious regulations and standards set so that we aren’t doing this. I personally would buy a stroller without foam. I mean this is a classic example of a company not having their stuff together. This is what I experienced with Diono. They were telling people different things and didn’t know what they were talking about. In the end, after all their claims about no FRs, they did use them. The reality is that they might not have even known. Please let us know how your results come back from Duke.
Hi abbey that is frustrating. I only had great and informative interactions with Devon from their customer service. I didn’t ask for a breakdown of every stroller seat fabric but whichever I asked for he gave me and I specifically asked about polyurethane foam, which was not present in the seats that I asked about. The fabrics listed were mostly a nylon/Lycra/ polyester blend with poly fill for cushioning and I have documented that no flame retardants are used in the united states.
I just got off the phone with them and I’m so sad. They said that they now use polyurethane foam as a cushioning material for their strollers, (the change happened in august of 2014), however no flame retardants are used on it or any of their US products.
That is disappointing! I would make sure the manufacturer of the foam isn’t spraying it before they get it. There is non-treated PU foam out there but some does come already treated.
Hey Amy! Which stroller did they say now uses polyurethane foam? I had a lot of communication with the company reassuring me that they only used poly fill! Thanks for sharing 🙂
Hi Stacey, I’m so frustrated and heartbroken. It’s pretty much every stroller now. I too have it documented that no puf was used, but a change was made in August of 2014 to now use it as cushioning. They spoke with the engineer and assured me that it was untreated and chemically inert. I bought it knowing that it was fr and puf free and now I have a stroller with puf in the seat. At least there aren’t any fr’s and its not on the outside, but I’m completely defeated.
Sigh. I also spent so much time looking for a stroller that was free of fr and puf 🙁 I have a new mountain buggy sitting in my garage. I’m glad I didn’t open it bc it’s going back. It makes me so upset when we are led to believe one thing and the truth is far from it. Have you considered the Bumbleride strollers?
Are you open to buying used? My mountain buggy urban has no padding at all.
Hi Stacey,
I bought a travel system. I am G-D willing due in 2.5 weeks with my first child. I need a stroller and a car seat. I will be writing to the CEO of the company today and I’m trying to figure outif I take it to a box store maybe I can switch it out for a floor model, but I think I’m just going to have to suck this up and be frustrated unfortunately.
I can’t seem to make a new comment thread but I am curious if any of you live in the state of CA and own the Orbit? Please let me know 🙂
Any update on your testing?
naturalbabymama, thanks so much for your blog, it has provided valuable information to a FTM! I have an Orbit G2 Infant car seat and live in CA. I’m debating if I should buy the Orbit stroller seat since I already have the base but I’d hate to support a company who lies!!
I agree, I hate to support a company that lies too. I personally wouldn’t 🙂 Also even though they claim to not sure FRs in their strollers I’m not sure I believe them. I haven’t looked at their strollers closely but if they have foam I would not buy it.
Wondering where you are buying the Clek?? I didn’t see a prop 65 on clek site or right start, where I got mine, but could totally be missing it. I hope it is some stupid company that just puts up the warning for every car seat and doesn’t know the difference. We have been happy with our clek…fingers crossed. If you contact about prop 65, please post response. Thanks!!
I just got a Mountain Buggy Protect car seat in the mail and the tag on the cover says polyester, lycra and polyurethane stuffing. Im not sure why they are telling people that the cover is ripstop nylon when it is not and the tag clearly states so! I was told there is no polyurethane foam… maybe they are playing with semantics. Im waiting on a call back from them now. Very frustrating and disheartening. There is somehwat of a chemical odor to the seat too. I have no clue what to do… especially if the Mountain buggy strollers aren’t any good either! (I am so enamored of the MB Nano due to its size and weight… I take a subway a lot).
Alison, can you please keep meposted about your conversations with mountain buggy about the polyfoam in the car seat? I am interested in what they will say. I bought a stroller and car seat too. sigh.
Absolutely- are there specific questions you would like me to ask? I feel like with this pregnancy brain, Im not as quick as I used to be!
Ha! i totally feel you. I guess ask if the polyfoam was treated with any chemicals by the manufacturer they purchased it from, prior to them receiving it? Why isn’t EPS foam listed on the tag at all, which they are touting as being used in the car seat? Was the car seat ever available without the Polyfoam?
I will say their customer service is very nice and very willing to work with you.
The EPS is the material that protects in crashes in the body… a hard foam. The polyester, lycra and polyurethane stuffing are in the seat cover and infant insert. The seat has only been available for a few weeks now, so I cant imagine its been changed that fast.. but who knows! I want to know where the ripstop nylon went! When I asked before buying the seat, this was one of the responses:
“The seats will use EPS foam which is not treated with any type of flame retardant. We work with our own factory and supply chains to ensure this. Seat fabric is rip-stop nylon which is also untreated.”
Here is my Mountain Buggy Protect car seat update. The tags clearly say they have polyurethane fill. The person I spoke with at Mountain Buggy (Devon) clarified and explained that the EPS foam is in the body (I do see it- looks like the white cooler material, aka styrofoam). There is polyurethane fill in the cover and infant insert. He said that they do not source the polyurethane from an outside supplier and get it directly (not clear what that means or what that distinction is worth) and so it can be guaranteed to NOT be treated with flame retardants. The cover is made of polyester mix (and he keeps calling that ripstop nylon, but I really believe that polyester mix and nylon are different). As for the Nano stroller, he says it is filled with polyester, not polyurethane fill BUT polyurethane is sprayed on the top of the sunhood and on the back of the seat for water repellance. He also said that the engineer admits that polyurethane foam is highly toxic while it is being made but was not aware of it being toxic (outside of added flame retardants) once it is manufactured. Im waiting to hear back for a few additional bits of information.
Im going to send some of the PU foam to Duke. I have concerns over the EPS foam since testing by healthystuff has recently shown flame retardants in EPS foam in a car seat. Duke does not test styrofoam/EPS.
What about stripping the PDBEs with vinegar? Does that now work with the FR? http://www.drfranklipman.com/rest-easy-babythe-secrets-of-a-safe-nursery/
All I can say is that I washed my Orbit car seat cover probably 6 times in a row with soap flakes and vinegar and it still tested positive for FRs.
Hi –
Thank you so much for creating this blog, which has been very helpful in finding safe options from clothes to toothbrushes for my LO. I am looking to purchase a new car seat for my 19 month old as well as a stroller. While reading through all the comments in this section, I have become confused.
What is the safest option for a car seat and stroller? Thanks!
I’m confused too! I don’t think there is a 100% safe answer. One person’s Clek came back positive. If you can wait another month or two there should be some more Clek test results back. I like that Clek is made in North America but they all use FRs.
For a stoller, I still like my used Moutain Buggy Urban. There is NO foam.
Any more updates? I’m trying to decide in safest most non toxic carseat as my daughter is outgrowing her infant seat at 14 m.diono or clek or any other one .please help I need one asap
No more updates, unless more results from Duke have come in that I haven’t heard about yet.
The only way I know to not have FRs in the car seat is to get an organic cover made. Sassy Stork makes great covers. I know it’s not for everyone and a decision you have to make for your family.
Just learned about this new stroller from Honest! It is a collaborating with City Mini GT. I feel like on this list someone found their city mini still had FRs (we have a city mini GT double ugh!). Thoughts on this? Honest says it is FR-free!!???? https://www.honest.com/collective/city-mini-gt-stroller
I mean I would love to believe them but time and time again we have seen FRs come up when they said they weren’t there. I personally prefer a stroller that has no foam then you don’t have to worry about FRs.
So, so true!! I agree—better to avoid all together. Great point 🙂
Has anyone tested the Nuna Pipa? Supposedly they are made with OEKO-TEX certified fabrics with ammonium polyphosphate as the flame retardant. I know it’s been mentioned as potentially one of the least toxic options — curious if anyone’s done any further research. Thanks!
The Nuna Pipa hasn’t been tested by Duke by any on my readers as far as I know. Oeko-Tek can contain FRs just an FYI. I still think this is potentially a good option!
I noticed many getting replacement covers for their orbit seats, is there a benefit of getting an expensive orbit and replacing the cover vs buying a cheaper seat and replacing the cover?
This is because we were all told that Orbit didn’t use the really bad FRs. All along they claimed to use FRs approved by Oeko-Tek. I didn’t love that either so I got a cover but after 6-9 months of use. Now the option for a lot of people is to get a cover since their is Tris in the Orbit seats. My opinion is that there is no benefit of buying the Orbit and then buying a cover. I actually don’t think we should support companies who are misleading. If you are comfortable with getting a cover then I would get a less expensive seat and get a cover made by Sassy Stork. I didn’t have a great experience with Nollie Covers.
What are your thoughts about replacing a car seat cover (like the Britax Roundabout) with a Nomie car seat cover? I emailed the company about FR, their response follows: “Thank you for contacting Nomie Baby. Our car seat covers are make of 3 different types of polyester materials. The layer closest to the child is a soft, silky material. The inner layer is barded for absorbency, and the layer closest to the car seat and away from the child is waterproof. They have not been treated with any chemicals or flame retardants.”
I don’t know anything about the Nomie car seat cover. Is there foam inside or they are just using extra polyester for padding? What is making that closest layer waterproof? I’m a big fan of organic fibers and not polyester personally but that’s just my personal preference 🙂
Personally, I wouldn’t choose man-made, chemical polyesters for anything around my child, especially something in close contact. I’d stick with organic cotton/wool, much safe.
Ok I ended up ordering the diononrxt .i know there are fire retardants.i was waiting to hear if clek did but didn’t see an update.can I change the padding in diono as well?
Did anyone test a Baby Jogger stroller for fire retardants with Duke? Looking specifically for the City Mini GT. Claims not to have any fire retardants and I believe someone tested their products and they came back positive? Does anyone know which fire retardants it tested positive for?
Yes, the City Mini did test positive for FRs. I can’t remember which one but I think somewhere in the comments it is listed 🙂 If I had to guess it was Tris, it’s the most common FR that is coming up.
When I talked with Diono they told me on the phone that the padding inside the fabric (which is what tested positive) was just for comfort and I could remove it if I wanted. I don’t recommend removing the padding that is attached to the base of the seat (the Styrofoam). That seems like a safety issue to me. Taking the cover off and replacing with an organic cover is an option that I am ok with. Again, each family has to make their own choice!
I read through the comments and it looks like everyone tested Baby Joggers that were from 2013 or older. Has anyone tested a 2014 version since that’s when they claim to be FR free? Thanks so much!
I’m pretty sure they claimed to be FR free all along then claimed they weren’t and now 2014 is. I feel like we have been down this road with several companies claiming to be FR free then it testing that there is FRs. I don’t trust any foam. It may be that suppliers are claiming FR free and then send them foam with FRs in it.
does DUKE post their results? I just went on their site and cant seem to find anything… any thoughts on the Clek reg fabric as opposed to the crypton? ive been agonizing over it and panicked and went with a non crypton fabric
No, they don’t post their results. I asked them if they would share them and they said they can’t. There is some conversations about the reg fabric vs crypton in the comments. Basically the reg fabric is interior car fabric and Clek only claims that the crypton fabric is free of brominated & tris FRs (even though one person’s car seat tested positive for Tris). So I would say that the reg is prob treated but I don’t know for sure.
I am looking to get a toddler seat (the size after the infant seat) soon for my daughter who is now 8 months. We have the Orbit G2 system 🙁 now, would love to get the G3 but I assume that its a horrible option given this post. Any suggestions for the best non-toxic option for the next stage car seat? Also, do the Orbit stroller seats contain FR?
I should probably rephrase my question… What would you choose if you were 1) purchasing a seat and replacing the cover and 2) if you were purchasing a seat and leaving as is?
I would like to get ASAP but maybe able to wait a few months. I am not as concerned about cost.
Hi I just bought the diono.i just didn’t know what to do between clek or diono
It smelled a little the first day but I put it in the garage and has been for a week.no smell .i know there are fire retardants and unfortunently we can’t find one that does it naturally.we are not in the car often and I open windows before we leave to air out.
Good luck! It’s tough these days
Is the orbit G2 or G3 worse than the others?
For the toddler seats
They are the same, no difference in terms of toxicity.
I’m not trying to criticize but there are those of out there that don’t have a garage to store a car seat in and have little choice but to leave the car exposed to the elements, which means a car seat baking inside the car under the hot sun! I also try to air the car out but it’s not so easy these days when it’s freezing outside and the car is also outside, and I have a little guy to worry about catching a cold too. There really needs to be a better, healthier and safer alternative, not the least worst option, to choose from, but I realize I’m preaching to the choir.
In response to the question re baby jogger and duke testing, I have not yet had the opportunity to get the samples in. The submission was closed for this month already by the time i checked so I will have to try again next month. I will try to get on the website as early as possible in January and hopefully will get in.
I also wanted to update on Nollie Covers. We ended up with no cover and having to dispute the charge with the cc co. After doing that, I got some really ridiculous emails that make me think that the Nollie custom covers are a total scam. I would definitely not recommend to anyone. I think Sassy Stork is working on more toddler car seat options, possibly the orbit, so that would be great. In the mean time we are considering getting an inexpensive Cosco Scenera as a backup because Sassy Stork can make a cover for it – I remember reading on the Healthy Stuff old report though that it was not a great seat in terms of toxicity but I can’t get to the report anymore. Does anyone have any info regarding that seat. It would be much appreciated!
Nollie covers wasn’t a scam a year & a half ago when I ordered, but she was very, very, VERY difficult to work with, great communication before I placed my order and then it was like she dropped off the face of the earth after my order was place. Absolutely terrible customer service, and it took twice as long to get the covers as she initially promised & had listed on the website. Which was especially surprising because one of the covers wasn’t even “custom”, it was a ready-to-go clearance organic cover. But when we finally got the covers, we were pleased with them.
BUT not so pleased that we would go through the headache of dealing with her again. We placed an order for a Sassystork organic custom cover for our Graco MyRide 65 two weeks ago and it is a)less expensive and b)already in the mail on its way to us! We did the $25 extra for “rush” order (need it for Christmas traveling) but I’m still blown away that we are getting this one two weeks after ordered when our Nollie covers still weren’t on their way to us after two MONTHS past ordering. Sassystork has been very easy to work with too and will even direct you to some organic online fabric shops if you want to pick out different fabrics (we considered it but ultimately ended up choosing ones she had listed).
I also had a difficult time getting any response from Nollie Covers. Then my husband sent an email (this was after waiting somewhere between 2-3 months and they sent a response back to me (not to him oddly) that it would be finished by end of week or beginning of following week and that the rush fee would be refunded. After waiting several more weeks and following up with an email to which we received no reply, we had no car seat and the rush fee had not been refunded. So we decided to take the matter up with the cc company.
After that I received a reply but not from Basia, but from a man, and it was odd and dramatic and accused me of being unethical. I responded matter of factly with the details of the transaction and follow-up email and said that I felt they were being unethical by not delivering the merchandise or following up properly. After that, I received an even more dramatic email threatening to put me on their ban list of which only a handful of people have ever been put on …blah blah blah….and that I would never be able to order from them again and would not be able to find a similar cover out there. It was as if they were trying to instill fear in me so I would cancel the dispute (which was frankly silly because I would never attempt to order from them again anyway).
Of course, never once did either of the emails contain a date that the merchandise would be sent out. And as far as the credit card disputes go, the cc company does it’s due diligence between the consumer and the vendor, so if they were on the up and up, it would have been up to me to prove otherwise. I really did not get a good feeling about them and would not recommend anyone order from them.
I decided this week to go with the cosco scenera (since it has no eps foam and on healthy stuff.org, on the older version, the plastic parts did not test positive for flame retardants only the cover). It is pretty bare bones and for some not having the eps/epp seems to be a detractor, but it scores just fine in safety tests. And Sassy stork can make a cover for it. I also opted for a stock cover, because time is of the essence. I opted for the rush fee as well so hopefully I will have as much luck as you. The scenera is a very basic seat, and also a very inexpensive one. I figured that for one-third the cost of the nollie cover I can have a car seat and replacement cover and not have to worry about FR’s in the EPS/EPP foam that is attached to the plastic on most seats. I even think I read somewhere that the Scenera is made in the usa. Once I have the cover and start using it, I will post a follow up.
I’m wondering if I could get some clarification on the idea behind seat covers. With the exception of the poster who is talking about replacing the foam with latex (very interesting idea!), is the thinking here that a cover will just hold in the toxins from FR, polyfoam, etc? Are we assuming that these toxins don’t also release gasses that could penetrate the covers (in addition to dust and whatever else they might emit)?
I feel like I’m faced with needing to decide between a more expensive car seat option (Nuna Pipa?) that makes claims about low-toxicity and leave it as-is (because the cover will throw us over budget) or get something cheaper that I KNOW to be loaded with all kinds of crap and spend the extra $ on a cover. But the question remains…and seems more pressing with a seat with known toxicity: how much is the cover really going to protect my little guy? If anyone has any insight into how well we can assume these covers protect our babies/kiddos, please share – I’m all ears! : )
All car seats and car seat covers are different. Some are attached so replacing doesn’t work. The seats I have had have covers that slip off (with the PU foam inside the fabric) and you can slip on a new organic cover. You are removing the entire piece that has FRs.
Michelle, your comment was very helpful to me. Last year I got a Nollie Cover for a Graco infant seat. (They sent it months after they were supposed to, so we had to go home from the hospital with the FR cover). Once we starting using the Nollie Cover, I thought the car seat was rid of FRs, but I learned recently through this blog and elsewhere that the non-removable EPS foam on my infant seat likely has FR.
It’s now time to buy a toddler carseat, and I have been stuck on what to do. I’m going to use your idea of getting the Cosco Scenera and buying a Sassy Stork cover. I didn’t realize that there were any car seats without the attached EPS/EPP foam. Do you know of any other car seats besides the Cosco Scenera that don’t have the attached EPS/EPP foam or is that pretty much the only option?
RS,
I’m not aware of any other seats that don’t have the eps foam in the base. I searched a little, because I was curious too, but even the slightly more expensive cosco seats have eps foam. I think it is the trend in car seats – having it seems to be a selling point from a marketing standpoint. Also, the older version of the scenera tested low for toxins like lead etc, in the plastic seat part, but you never know with the latest version because things always change.
I received my cover from sassy stork very quickly (actually 2 of them, ordered separately — I did pay for the rush). The interaction was also seamless – I ordered the product and it was delivered as advertised and on time, with a notification of when it would ship. I haven’t used it yet though. I am very sensitive to smells/ chemicals and the cover had a strong smell when I opened the box. The smell was like a really strong fabric softener (although the used orbit toddler seat we received from a friend has also left this sort of smell the few times my husband used it in his car so I can’t say for sure what it is).
Hence I needed to wash it, but hubby went out of town for work for 3 weeks around the time I received it in January, and I have my hands pretty full with my very active/somewhat high needs toddler. I also know that it is going to take several (probably quite a few) washes to get the smell out of the cover and since washing diapers and clothes comes first, I have continued to use the maxi cosi pria 70 seat with my homemade cover. If I had really good sewing skills and a little more free time right now I would have made a nice cover on my own already. And if it were just me making the decisions, I probably wouldn’t have been in a huge hurry to get a replacement cover for my shabby one. But if smells don’t really bother you (and please keep in mind I’m extremely sensitive), then I would highly recommend Sassy Stork for her turnaround time and overall product delivery. I will report on the overall satisfaction for scenera w/ ss cover once it is installed in one of our cars.
Also, for anyone considering the pria 70, I just want to reiterate that I do NOT recommend it because of the PU attached to the head rest and the fact that no one makes a replacement cover for it. I kept the headrest PU on for a while after I replaced the cover but finally removed it due to my severe reaction, but I’m sure lots of people will not feel comfortable doing that. Additionally, if you have a tall child, which it seems a lot of other posters do, I don’t recommend the Pria 70 for that reason either. At 16 months, my son was 33.5 inches tall, and he is solidly built with a long torso, and there is very little slack left in the strap/cord (especially with winter clothes on). I have a hard time imagining the Pria would last him till he was 2yrs old, despite the 40″ RF and 52″ FF they claim it can do. (Maybe if you’re child is all legs those numbers would be accurate?).
Sorry for the long post, but hope it helps!
Wait, so the Sassy Stork cover smelled like fabric softener?! I’m super sensitive to smells and just place an order too. I’m going to have to ask her not to do that.
Regarding the Sassy Stork cover and the smell, it’s entirely possible that the smell is a byproduct of other things in her home/workshop or from the fabric itself. If someone routinely uses air fresheners or scented detergent/fabric softener in their home/workplace, those odors will very likely attach themselves to other things in the home/workplace. I’ve also recently started wondering if some of the smells are a byproduct of flame retardants and/or come from plastics that absorb odor very readily. One example I can give you to try and illustrate this is that I have a neighbor, and every time I have been to their house, I come home and my clothes smell like fabric softener. They even gave me some baby/toddler books a year ago, and they still have that smell to them although it is fainter than what it used to be. It definitely wouldn’t hurt to ask, but the smell may just be a residual from other applications or the fabric supplier.
Hi All,
Thank you everyone for the great deal of information that has been posted. It has been nice knowing that there really are other moms out there that recognize the toxic world we are exposing our children to on a daily basis.
I have a 4 year old son who has many environmental and food sensitivities. When he was 2, we bought a britax carseat, only to find out the one we purchased was listed as the MOST toxic seat out there! Ugh! It made sense why he would turn beat red and break out in rashes everytime he was in his carseat.
We bought the orbit with the thought that it was non-toxic. My son did so much better with this carsear, so it definitely was less toxic. But I am extremely disappointed to learn that the seat still contained the FR’s that we thought we were avoiding…..
My son, recently, has been miserable in his orbit carseat because where the 5 point harness latches is pressing on his boy parts and making him miserable. He isn’t a big guy either….he is on the small side, so I was surprised to have this problem.
After a great deal of research and searching, we decided to go with the Clek Crypton Booster seat. I figured it was better to trade the evil of the Tri’s for the evil of the stain resistant treated material. It is so sad that you cannot find a product without poison in it!
We just received the carseat and it is super nice. My son is beyond happy because he is not in pain….BUT, Where ever his skin is exposed and it touches the seat, he begins itching like crazy!
I feel like crying. I do not know what to do. It is better to find a carseat with organic material on the outside and toxic foam on the inside? I realize even the Clek is toxic, but I had hoped it would be better. We pooled all of our family to send cash for Christmas so that we could purchase this seat and now I don’t know what to do….
Do I send this one back or keep it in hopes that things will wear off……
Does anyone know if there are covers that might just fit over the Clek seat so that skin would not come into contact with the actual seat material?
Sorry for not responding sooner, I wasn’t responding to emails for awhile. I’m so sorry you are going through that with your son. I don’t know of any truly non toxic option for any car seat. They all have something negative about them. I also don’t think a cover can go over any Clek model since the fabric is stitched into the base. Maybe someone else knows something?
Any update on the Duke results for the Clek? Is it still the best option even if it tested for TDCPP?
Does anyone know the FR in the Orbit G2/G3 toddler seat? I thought that the infant seat tested positive for TDCPP?
Seeing as Clek and Orbit both tested positive for TDCPP I would assume they are similar/equivalent regarding the FR concern. Am I missing something?
Would the best option then be to get the Orbit G2/G3 Toddler seat and have Sassy Stork make a cover? She doesn’t have Orbit listed at the moment but she emailed me back and said that they would be up soon.
Looking for advice, PLEASE 🙂 🙂
I did contact orbit about the stroller seat and they did tell me that the strollers do not contain any FR’s. I have not gotten ours tested.
As an FYI, I just got on Duke’s site to submit foam samples and they still had spots available for this month in case anyone is interested.
Hi Michelle- have you heard back from Duke on the Baby Jogger 2014 foam samples? I’m in the process of deciding whether to get a Baby Jogger stroller and happened upon this thread. Thanks so much for sending in samples- this information is incredibly helpful when deciding what to buy.
I would recommend not buying anything from Orbit Baby. We had the orbit baby G2 toddler seat tested by Duke and an independent laboratory. The G2 toddler seat tested positive for TDCPP and tris(2-chloroisopropyl)phosphate. Sassy Stork does not yet have a pattern for the G2 toddler seat.
G3 seats made before July 2014 also likely contain TDCPP. As part of a prop 65 settlement (http://oag.ca.gov/prop65/60-day-notice-2013-01051) Orbit Baby agreed that it would stop selling products with TDCPP in California as of July 2014. Anything made by them prior to 7/2014 likely has TDCPP. If you bought your stroller prior to 7/2014 then you should get the foam tested. If it tests positive for TDCPP then you may be able to get them to give you a refund.
Thanks for the update and I agree with you about not buying anything from them! Good for you having it tested at an independent lab. Sassy Stork is working on a pattern for the toddler seat but it is still months out – just an fyi 🙂
No updates on results on the Clek seat. Yes, I think if they both have Tris both are equally not ideal. It would be nice to know how much Tris is in each seat though. If you are open to getting a cover by Sassy Stork then I personally go that route whether it be with Orbit or another car seat company. I’m not a fan of supporting Orbit at this point because of all the misleading they have done. If you do test your Orbit stroller please let us know the results. Also, I tested my Orbit toddler seat and it tested positive for Tris.
I have followed this blog for almost two years. I am so glad that so many moms take the time to post all this wonderful info. I have agonized all this time over the best convertible or toddler car seat for my baby girl. I am definitely getting a cover. What is the best seat to get in terms of toxicity? If I go with a less expensive brand am I compromising safety and getting more harmful chemicals???? I just want the best thing for my baby, but it seems like there is nothing out there!!!!!! Any thoughts???
Sorry for the longest delay in responding. Thanks for reading for so long! I got overwhelmed with the holidays and have been really tired during this pregnancy. Get your cover from Sassy Stork and not Nollie (the one I have listed on the original post). All car seats have to pass a safety test. Consumer Reports does an additional test on safety but all car seats on the market have to pass federal standards. Most of the chemicals are found in the foam and fabric; however there are some in plastic base and other parts of the seat. Healthy Stuff does test all parts of the seat so you can look there (even though the results are from older models). I agree, that there isn’t anything out there. I don’t think there is a good answer. Getting a organic cover made so at least the parts that they are touching the most don’t have FRs is the best solution in my opinion.
I have been very happy with my sassy stork cover over a peg perego infant seat. I got the seat cheap from amazon because it was an unpopular color, but I didn’t care because I was going to replace it. Not sure what we’ll do when he outgrows it. But thanks to everyone for caring about flame retardant exposure and sharing so much information.
I’m glad to hear you like your cover! I just ordered a cover for our infant seat for the baby on the way. I’ve heard good things so I’m excited to see how it compares to the Nollie cover that I have on my toddler seat (I haven’t been overly impressed with her or the cover).
My little guy is only six months old but tall and growing fast. Any update on the Duke results for the Clek? Is it still the best option even if it tested for TDCPP? I guess the Radian or Foonf are least problematic?
I also have a six-month-old who has a month or two tops left in his (highly toxic, I now realize) infant car seat. I think I am down to the Radian or the Foonf as well, though my head is spinning and quite frankly, I don’t know what to believe at this point. Does anyone have any new information about either of these seats? Suggestions/opinions for which one would be better? Or something else?
No new info. I know someone who just bought the Radian, not sure of color, but said it smelled horribly when they opened the box. Like really, really bad. I don’t trust Diono as a company and personally wouldn’t choose them unless I was getting an organic cover made. If you are down to those two, and don’t want to do a cover, then I would go with the Foonf (even though that tested for Tris by one of my readers). More testing should be out soon I hope! I had a huge 6 month old too and he ended up making it about a year in his infant seat, which I hated because of the toxicity but I couldn’t make a decision either… and my decision turned out not to be a good one because of lies from Orbit.
Hi I am on my third Dions radian in storm and it smells so bad I refuse to use it. I returned it and got another… Same issue and then again with the third. I will be returning this seat again and hoping to find out the clek results because my son is getting too big for his infant seat. I’m so disgusted! There has to be something in that diono car seat that is causing that rancid smell. I aired it out and washed it… Nothing worked.
There haven’t been any updates which I’m surprised about. I did email with them towards the end of last year and they said after the new year. It’s so hard to say what is the best option. I don’t like Radian unless you are getting an organic cover. I would love to know the ppm of Tris that was found in Foonf.
Got my results on my Clek Foonf back from Duke today! They didn’t detect a significant presence (>1% by weight) of the 7 flame retardants for which they test.
Thanks for the update! Do you mind letting us know what year and even maybe what color you got? I know sometimes those factors can make a difference. Thanks! =)
It is a 2014 lime green (I think it is called Dragonfly), which has the crypton fabric (or whatever it is called). As you may know, 2014 is the year that HealthyStuff.org had previously stated was free from harmful flame retardants.
Karen, you wrote…”As you may know, 2014 is the year that HealthyStuff.org had previously stated was free from harmful flame retardants.”
Can you post in that link? I haven’t seen that before. Thanks!
http://media.clekinc.com/2014/03/07/clek-2014-car-seats-officially-free-of-bromine-and-chlorine-based-flame-retardants-as-per-healthystuff-org/
Well, then I’m buying it tonight!
The Clek press release has been altered on their website. It used to state that all 2014 Clek Foonf carseats are free of brominated and chlorinated flame retardants. It now specifies that only the Crypton fabrics are. The text has changed…but not the date of the press release.
My 2014 Clek Foonf tested positive for TDCPP and TBPP. I sent three different samples at two different times and they all came back the same.
What colour is yours?
HealthyStuff told me that they were going to look into the Foonf further as a result of reports of positive tests, btw.
Is your Foonf one that doesn’t have the crypton fabric, then? I wonder why the non-crypton fabric ones would have flame retardants, if the only difference is the fabric…
Heavens123 – what did Clek say when you told them??? I’m so upset about this. I have a 2014 oobr and a 2015 fllo – i haven’t had either tested, i’m just too angry and angsty about the whole thing.
I received the following response when I emailed them about reports of positive results:
“I have passed your note on to our engineering team and they will investigate this matter further.
We had all of the new components in the Foonf tested by the Ecology Centre in Michigan who confirmed that these components are free of brominated and chlorinated flame retardants (including the chemical compound that you alluded to). It is quite possible that either an old cover with the previous foam backing or the non-Crypton fabric (Drift) was tested. But that is only speculation as we are not have access to the test information you are alluding to, but will certainly look into it further.
Can you take a picture of the inside and top side of your fabrics and send to us? We made a switch in 2014 to the foam stitched to the backside of the fabrics. This alternative foam was tested, along with all of the individual components in the seat, by the Ecology Centre in Michigan and were found to be free of these chemicals.
With respect to the fabrics, it is our line of Crypton fabrics which are free-from brominated and chlorinated flame retardants (all colours excluding the Drift model). In 2015, we will be making a change to our Drift fabric fabric as well, which will then ensure that ALL models, including Ozzi and Olli, are completely free of brominated and chlorinated flame retardants.
Please let us know if you have any further questions!”
The crypton fabrics contain nano-particles, I don’t have a clue as to whether or not this makes them flame resistant, but it does make them antimicrobial, so who knows what other properties these fabrics have that allow them to meet the flame resistance standards. It does make me wonder though, if the fabric is treated with flame retardants, and flame retardants are inherently mobile, then can we presume that they if they are in the fabric, they could adhere to the foam as a byproduct of the fabric? I am aware that plastics can absorb toxic chemicals, here’s an interesting link if you want to read more about it….http://www.motherjones.com/blue-marble/2013/01/plastics-and-chemicals-they-absorb-pose-double-threat-marine-life
I was about to buy a Clek Fllo in drift until reading through all these comments so I wrote them and asked what their stance was on the Drift containing FR and this was their response:
Thank you for contacting Clek. We have certifications from our supplier confirming that the component in question (foam) is free from bromine and chlorine based flame retardants. At this time we are having confirmatory testing done and will make an announcement when more information is available.
Kind Regards,
Samantha Musacchia
clek
Customer Support Team
866.656.2462
That’s great!
Thank you so much for creating this page! Did anyone get their Phil and Ted’s infant car seat foam tested at Duke?
I’m trying to find out more about the Nuna Mixx stroller. I’ve tried submitting the contact us form on the website (it produces an error message), and have tried e-mailing them, as directed, at [email protected]. It’s been several weeks and I’ve heard nothing. Does anyone have a phone number for them? I’ve looked and looked, to no avail.
I’ve reached out to Nuna as well to learn about the Ivvi and Pepp strollers and Zaaz highchair. They replied but the answer was very generic. I emailed them at [email protected] AND posted on their faceThis is their response:
:::As you may know, chemical standards are changing all the time. Nuna meets all the standards listed within our certifiably green statement on our web site (nuna.eu / this is nuna / certifiably green). I know this may not answer all your questions directly, but that is all the information we have at the present time.:::
I decided to go with the Mountain Buggy. Love it and they always answer questions!
Thank you! After sending three more emails to Nuna through various channels, I received a reply today. Here is what they said:
“We follow the European REACH Standard, the European EN71 Standard, the US Consumer Product Safety Improvement Act (CPSIA), Global Organic Textile Standard (GOTS), and Oeko-Tex certification requirements to ensure the highest quality and safety in our products. These standards were implemented to improve product quality, product safety and are very specific in regards to absence and limitations of potentially harmful substances in products. Please visit their web sites for more information.
To answer your specific question regarding flame retardants, we DO NOT apply any flame retardant treatments to our products with the exception of the foam in the Pipa Car Seat to meet Federal Law FMVSS 302.
In addition we follow the CPSIA strict requirements related to restricted or banned substances in children’s products including: Lead in surface coatings, Lead in substrates, Cadmium, Phthalates, Formaldehyde and other potentially harmful substances.”
It was comforting to hear this information, although they didn’t indicate what the flame retardant was for the Pipa. Perhaps someone’s already found that out?
They also answered several specific questions I had, about the size of the stroller when folded and when the snack tray will be available.
So, they did respond, but it took them a while.
Mountain Buggy responded immediately, and the people were wonderful. Unfortunately, the stroller that meets the requirements I have, the cosmopolitan, doesn’t have an extendable handle. I’m 6 feet and my husband is 6’2″, so that’s a dealbreaker for us. It’s a shame, because I would’ve loved to have gone with their stroller.
I’m jumping into the middle of a convo a few months told- but I figured I’d share what I have to offer.
I have been in close contact with one particular person from Nuna for a couple months. We own many Nuna products (Mixx, Pipa, Pepp, Sena + Leaf). They don’t do flame retardants in any components of their strollers, or any of their other products. Their USED to be flame retardant in the Sena per law- but as soon as that law was lifted, they changed the product. They’ve been Oeko- Tek certified since early 2013 for all products.
Recently, I purchased the stroller liner for the Pepp. It was manufactured in very early 2013 and had the TB117 tag attached. I contacted the same guy I always go to, and he got a hold of their warehouse and development team to find answers. Turns out the stroller longer FOAM does contain FR (I’m assuming it’s the same that’s in the Pipa- which is the “best” FR chem out there- ammonium phosphate I think- it’s basically salt). He had the warehouse ditch the rest of the inventory and order new, FR free stock from their manufacturer.
My point is- it’s unfortunate it took long for an initial answer, but they’re like the greenest company all around at this point- because they offer a green carseat.
And no, I don’t work for them 🙂
FYI- I emailed orbit regarding there stroller seat to find out if they contained flame retardants, there reply was “Thank you for contacting us. No our Stroller Seats does not contain any flame retardants.”
Note the stroller seat and car seat are two separate pieces of gear.
Does the stroller have foam in it?
I’m so grateful for this thread and for all the research and care all you moms are doing! What an incredible resource!
two questions:
1. Does anyone happen to know if FR eventually off-gas and if so, how long that might take? We have the possibility of receiving a hand me down UppaBaby stroller from 2010 and my hope was that it would be off gassed by now. I was also thinking of getting a sheepskin insert for inside for extra protection. Thoughts?
2. After reading this whole article and ALL the amazing comments, I am wishing for a summary, so I wondered if it would be this:
INFANT CAR SEAT: buy a less expensive one like the graco or chicco and get a custom organic cotton or natural latex fabric seat made from Sassy Stork (or someone else).
STROLLER:
-Nuna Pipa seems like a possibility, but from the last post, it does seem like they use FR in the foam?
-Mountain Buggy (a used one with no foam? or do the new ones also not have FR? any particular model???
I’m still unclear about:
-Phil and Ted’s?
– Honest Co (do they make an infant car seat?)
Thanks so much!
1. They don’t offgas. They might not smell but they will always be there. The more the seat and foam break down over time the more gets into the air.
2. I still think Nuna is a good option for the infant seat. I personally am ok with getting a car seat cover. A lot of people aren’t. With that being said, that is the route I would go. Have Sassy Stork make a organic car seat cover to go over a Chicco or a Nuna. In my original blog post I mention Nollie Covers, my experience wasn’t so great and I’ve heard others experience similar things. Sassy Stork is currently taking a leave but will be back shortly if you have time to wait.
I honestly don’t believe any company that says that they don’t use FRs. It’s been said and proven otherwise. I wouldn’t believe Phil & Ted’s until someone tests it. There is no way around using foam in a car seat and not using FRs.
Strollers: stay away from foam and it will make it a lot easier. My Mountain Buggy is older and has no foam.
Just to clarify what you said here- did you mean a car seat cover to go over the cover already on the car seat? Or a complete replacement cover? (Am so grateful for this blog and your time and effort.)
FRs don’t offgas. Small particles end up binding with dust, and we usually end up absorbing them that way. To my understanding, FRs can be present at unsafe levels for a very long time.
There are several companies who don’t add FRs to strollers, but you may need to check to ensure any foam used wasn’t pre-treated. Here are a few:
Phil & Ted’s
Mountain Buggy
Baby Jogger (only those made in 2014 and later, but they will replace the cover for older models if you have one)
Honest Company
Mamas & Papas (I enquires about one, but you may need to make sure)
Nuna
There are others. Worth calling companies to make sure. Good luck!
Thanks Laurie! Always good input 🙂
Thumbs Up! Thank you!
Based on the Honest Co marketing model I amanita inclined to get anything there. I mean, subscription fees are just a measure of greed as far as I am concerned.
I went through recommendations regarding Orbit, Britax, and Clek. Frankly, they seem about the same, less chemicals, but still there. Only Orbit has a system that permits you to leave the bas in the car and transfer the seat to a stroller, which neither Clek nor Britax make. I contacted Clek about the fact that they have no infant model, and they said they were releasing a conversion kit for the 2015 Foonf within a few weeks, but we’ll see. Britain was asked about chemicals and they just didn’t answer yet. Of course, their website didn’t claim they didn’t use chemicals anyhow. I’m not concerned about making a new seat cover as I took apart my Graco swing in order to replace all the fabric and foam with my own custom work. It certainly looks custom. Haha. But I wouldn’t take on a car seat yet. Its testing my skill just to make the cloth diapers. But this is truly a giant pain in the ass. I made my own organic wool bassinet mattress, but what the hell are these flame retardants for? My infant shall not be smoking in the back seat and sitting in the seat while the car burns won’t save you. So….what’s the point?
I’m not a fan of the Honest company either!
I’m a big fan of the Honest Company. Not only are their products ones that I trust and feel good about having as an option, but we’ve had an exceptional experience with their diaper and wipes packages. I felt slightly annoyed at the fact that it was only available by subscription, although that is no longer true: you can get their products at Target now. However, they have been wonderful to work with. I cloth diaper half of the time, and so I often don’t need as many diapers as they would be sending. When I call, they’re more than willing to put my diaper and wipes packages on hold. I’ve had trouble trying to figure out sizing, and they’ve been wonderful about letting me send diapers back at their cost and send me new ones, again at their cost. They sent me out trial packages of diaper sizes to try (at their cost), and they even negotiated a deal recently so I can send back a ton of wipes packages, because I just don’t use as many as they send. They’re crediting me for the wipes, and allowing me use it towards future bundles.
They’ve been incredibly generous and the customer service has been exemplary. My diaper and wipes bundles often include little bonuses, like an lipstick on Mother’s Day, and a free organic cookie dough package for the holidays. I’m really impressed with them, and their product has been wonderful. My son actually gets more rashes from my cloth diapers then he ever does from their diapers.
Does Duke give levels of chlorine or bromine parts per million? Here is a study done that shows that 2014 Clek Foonf has 9 parts per million of Chlorine, so technically it has some but far less than 2012 Foonf which had 99,151 parts per million! The Bromine hasn’t been reduced much from 73 to 69, but regardless Clek needs to explain why there Chlorine and Bromine are being found when they advertise that neither is used. However, they may still be the lesser of all the other evils. Britax also seems to have greatly reduced their Bromine and Chlorine well with less Bromine than Clek!
http://www.michigan.gov/documents/deq/Track1-Gearhart-Using_Chemicals_Policy_to_Drive_Green_Chemistry_438996_7.pdf
They don’t show parts per million. It’s just if it has any or not. The issue also is that just because Bromine and Chlorine aren’t being used, something else is. Is what they are using going to be the next most harmful FRs like Bromine and Chlorine are now?
Thanks you guys! If you are following along, I have been in touch with a local boutique to STOP carrying Orbit – this just came through my newsfeed! http://www.sproutsanfrancisco.com/get-educated/orbit-baby-why-we-are-no-longer-selling-orbit-car-seats/
Thanks great!! Good work 🙂 Do you know what the other car seat was that they tested?
I was able to get permission to send in one sample to Duke this month. I’ll try to send the foam from my 2014 Nuna Pipa. Should I also send in the Pipa Styrofoam? As far as I can tell those are the only two foams in it.
I also wanted to send in samples from the 2015 Clek Fllo I am getting but will have to wait until next month because it seems submissions are closed. Fllo is suposed to be the same seat as Foonf with a few small differences. I’ll keep you updated.
The second car seat that Sprouts tested was the Pipa, and came back negative
Thanks! Maybe I can send Fllo instead.
Yay, a test that is actually is in line with what the company says! Thanks for sharing. I was beginning not to trust any company.
I don’t think that they can test the Styrofoam very well (and my understanding is that Styrofoam doesn’t need to be treated since it isn’t super flammable). I did send in some Styrofoam along with the PU foam in my Orbit. The PU foam had Tris the Styrofoam didn’t show anything. Keep us posted on your results. Another poster just commented that a store in San Francisco sent in foam from the Pipa and it came back not showing any of the 7 most common FRs which is good!
I have enjoyed using the Nuna Pipa and highly recommend it. It did not smell bad when we took it out of the box. The install was easy.The car seat safety techs that evaluated install were really excited about its safety features (like almost giddy!). And it is an attractive and relatively light seat. After 6 months of use the cloth at the bottom edge is getting a little worn so small bits of the foam padding can be seen. But that isn’t really a problem, and I’ll gladly use Pipa again if I have another baby. I wish Nuna made a convertible seat, but they said they don’t have plans to. We also like our Nuna Leaf swing seat a lot.
Hi, I’m a little confused. I read through your post and all the updates and 90% of the comments, but then I read another site http://www.nontoxicmunchkin.com/2014/02/chemical-conscious-parents-update-on.html – and here the author is recommending Orbit, Diono Radian, and the Clek Foonf — with descriptions of each that sound pretty good to me toxicity-wise. But am I correct in saying you have had readers send samples from these off and still found them to have the worst FR? Just looking for a little clarification. I’m not sure I can afford any of these, frankly. But, if I do end up able to purchase one, I’d want it to be worth the $$$ and not have a bunch of FR and other chemicals in it. Are the Duke testing results posted somewhere? Is HealthyStuff.Org going to test more? 2011 is a long time ago now! Thanks so much for the post, the blog, the advice.
Hi, yes it is so confusing! I didn’t read the other blog post but the only thing I can guess is that blogger is basing that info off of what the companies told them. Orbit most defintiley has Tris in it’s foam. There have been numerous tests done on Orbit seats from Duke and they have all come up positive. I haven’t seen one person say that their Orbit didn’t have any Tris (doesn’t mean that isn’t the case but in everything I’ve followed I haven’t seen it). Diono is the same. They claimed no FRs but use a polyurethane foam. There is no way around using that foam and passing flammability requirements. Diono also tested positive for Tris from multiple car seats from Duke. Clek is the one outlier. There were a couple of people that have had positive test from Duke that it contained Tris. Healthystuff is re-testing but it’s taking a long, long time for whatever reason.
Duke does not post their results. I asked them if they would be open to doing that and they said no. The main reason is that they don’t have specific product information so it may be foam from a couch from Crate & Barrel that tests positive for FRs and another couch might not. I just made that up so you get the idea of what they mean.
Healthystuff is testing more and said it would be out after the new year. As of now, there has been no new updates from them sadly.
I personally wouldn’t buy Orbit or Diono. I am curious to see what comes of Clek.
Do you need an infant seat? If so look at Nuna. If you need a convertible / toddler seat there really isn’t one that seems to be better in terms of toxicity at this point.
Thank you so much for the detailed explanation. I bought the Britax Be Safe/Be Agile system before I knew about all the toxic chemicals… Twas a naive pregnancy, quickly followed by a rude awakening. We ended up deciding to keep the system because it was a gift and we’d already used it. But, I vowed that I’d find the perfect convertible. Siiiigh. I don’t have $1000 to spend on 2 carseats (we need 1 for each car), so the Nuna and (probably Clek) was out anyway. But I was considering Diono because they were more affordable, but I don’t see any eco-friendly/non-toxic info on their site, and you are saying they came back as having tris. On the HealthyStuff 2011 results, they show the Graco MyRide 65 in colors Chandler and Streamer as being least toxic, and that carseat did pretty well in safety ratings as well. So I was leaning that way only THEY DON’T MAKE THOSE COLORS ANYMORE. What do you think I should do? DD is at the top of her infant carrier height, so I need to buy something asap. I’m just so frustrated I want to cry. Why do we need to be deceived like this? p.s. I think this will continue to be a hot topic, so I bet a new post with the current info would be appreciated by a lot of fans. I found your list of things I wish I’d registered for AFTER baby was born, of course, and have gone back to it many a time. I’ll be a regular follower now. THANK YOU.
So if it’s just the foam of the Diono that is testing positive for FR and not the fabric, couldn’t one just replace the foam with latex foam? (Say from a place like foamorder.com which does custom cuts)
You could…but it would negate the warranty and its assurances of safety.
What about the clek fllo is the foam flame retardant free?
Some fabric could be treated. Duke is only testing foam and not fabric. It depends on the materials in the fabric, if naturally flame resistant then it wouldn’t need to be treated.
I think Diono claims that two of the Radian’s colours (Rugby and Storm?) are inherently flame resistant. But, that is taking the company at its word due to the inability to have it tested by Duke.
They are not, yes they claimed that awhile back but they have FRs. It has shown up in Duke testing multiple times. There is no way to use foam and not use FRs.
Hi…I’m still indecisive!!! I really wanted to take a look at the 2011 report myself, but I can’t find it anymore now that Healthystuff.org has redone their website. I spent a good hour trying to find it…to no avail. Any tips?
I’m sad, I think I messed up. I got a new britax boulevard clicktight…I was impressed that right out of the box it did not have a chemical smell like the diono radian rxt (shadow) did. BUT being the concerned parent I am about toxicity, I washed the cover. Then it had a chemical smell!! So I washed it more. And soaked it in diluted vingegar. Then washed it a few more times. Smell still there quite noticeably when you get your nose close to it. I am really concerned that by washing it (manufacturers says cover is ok to hand wash) I broke down the foam more or something which I have read increases the amount of off gassing or whatever. (I read that some crib mattresses release more when they are older because of the foam breaking down) Any advice or anything?? I feel bad like I should have just left it alone, I’m using this for my newborn for crying out loud, I don’t want her breathing crap in.
The chemicals are there either way but now that you can smell it is probably has broken down the foam by washing it. I washed my orbit cover too. At this point there isn’t anything you can do except get a car seat cover.
does anyone know about the **mountain buggy protect or **phil and teds alpha for flame retardents and toxins as far as car seats go since they say their strollers have no flame retardants?
Jess here again. Well, my babe is almost 16 months. I guess I have to bite the bullet and decide on a convertible car seat. A couple questions:
1) It seems like Clek is the best option, since there was only one Duke negative test by a consumer, (is that assumption correct?) I saw a previous comment say that 2014 Cleks are free from harmful flame retardants? Can anyone point me toward that source? I can’t find it on the Healthystuff.org website.
2) I called healthystuff.org and asked for the 2011 car seat study (it’s no longer available online) and when they would be releasing the 2015 study. I was told I’d be emailed this information. This was Monday. It’s Thursday. I also emailed. Silence.
3) So, as of January 1 and the TB-117-2013 law update, car seats are no longer required by law to have flame retardants in them https://ireadlabelsforyou.com/tb-117-2013-what-does-t-mean/ IS ANY CAR SEAT COMPANY JUMPING ON THIS? Do we know?
4) I got reamed by a car seat technician’s forum when I asked for advice in finding FR-free car seats. They called the healthystuff.org study “pseudo science,” “fearmongering” and very flawed. They cited the carseatlady’s (a pediatrician’s) blog posting on it. https://thecarseatlady.wordpress.com/2011/08/04/chemicals/ I do think that post brings up valid points, and now that I can’t seem to get healthystuff.org to respond to me and they haven’t responded to the reasoning behind the variance in the testing… I have to admit, I’m questioning whether we could be on a wild goose chase for nothing. One of the biggest questions is why didn’t healthystuff test chlorinated FR? I’m wondering what do we really know about healthystuff? The Duke findings seem airtight…it’s a university, but even there we’re relying on 3rd parties to report back on their findings. Have you (or anyone here) read the carseatlady posting? Do you have a response to it or any further information on healthystuff???
Thank you so much!
Down with FR!
~J
Healthy Stuff is limited by what they can test for by the machine that they have. I disagree with the car seat lady in what she says about FRs. All car seats have to meet federal safety standards. I’m not diminishing car crashes but FRs are a given factor that our kids are exposed too. We can’t track what illness these FRs are going to cause 10, 20, 30 years down the line. The bottom line is that they aren’t good and there are alternatives that could be used. Babies bodies are so small and they are absorbing more of these chemicals. Yes they are in our cars and beds and couches unless you make changes. When there are alternatives available it make sense to use natural resources like wool and cotton vs chemicals.
Yes, car seats are not required to have FRs but they are required to meet flammability requirements. Car seat companies are choosing to meet those flammability requirements by using FRs – the cheapest and most effective way for them to meet those requirements.
Regarding the diono, I was at a baby show and ask the diono rep about flame retardants an. He straight up said that they use them. He thought thy were a good thing and it’s very possible he was just a bad rep.
Seems like the new test results are taking forever…. Maybe I’m just anxious!
I’m looking for an umbrella stroller and I’m lost in all the contradicting info. I would buy something with a mesh but everything I’ve found doesn’t have reclining options And we’re buying this because at this point our baby falls asleep only in the stroller. Does anyone have any recommendations?
I don’t know about the foam, if it does have any, but Baby Jogger strollers made after 2014 don’t have any FRs. Their Vue Lite umbrella stroller is probably exactly what you’re looking for. It does have a great recline, and it is also reversible, so you can face the baby towards you.
Thought I would also say that, after giving this issue a lot of thought before buying a new car seat, I started to wonder how much of a difference the choice of seat makes in light of the fact that the vehicle’s seats are likely highly treated. I know our little ones aren’t sitting on them directly and the vehicle seat foam is not as exposed as a car seat’s foam, but it still made me wonder… I’m more concerns about exposure within the home. Thankfully, there are no more options for non-treated household furniture due to recent changes to Califoria law, so I feel like I’m as good a job as possible in terms of limiting exposure.
Sorry – sloppy mobile typing. Meant to say there are “now more” options re upholstered home furniture!
We some with Phil and teds according to them their r no flame retardants at all in the mountsin buggy protect and Phil and teds alpha. There is only polyurethane foam in the infant insert which under new guidelines does not need to have flame retardants. I hear a lot about the nuna but why is no one considering these seats? Has anyone tested the foams ? Thank you !!! I bought the nuna but there are 4 huge stickers all over the head rest and don’t love that? Does anyone know what these stickers are made of ?
People are buying the Nuna.
We some with Phil and teds according to them their r no flame retardants at all in the mountsin buggy protect and Phil and teds alpha. There is only polyurethane foam in the infant insert which under new guidelines does not need to have flame retardants. I hear a lot about the nuna but why is no one considering these seats? Has anyone tested the foams ? Thank you !!! I bought the nuna but there are 4 huge stickers all over the head rest and don’t love that
Hi! There is a lot here! I was wondering if you had an official word on Orbit since 2014 or any new findings? Is Clek still your infant carrier of choice?
Nuna or Clek, I wouldn’t buy Orbit
Okay so baby is almost here so I guess I will send in my sample, how long does it take? I have the Phil & Teds, is the only thing I can test is the newborn insert, Since the rest is just fabric and the styrofoam stuff?
I’ve been following this for almost a year now and I thought you would be interested in this email I received from HealthyStuff:
“We’re writing to say thank you for sending an email to Ashley Furniture’s CEO.
The company is the nation’s largest furniture manufacturer and, last week, they called the Safer Chemicals, Healthy Families campaign organizers to announce their public commitment to a timeframe for banning flame retardant chemicals. All of their furniture is free of flame retardant chemicals as of January 1, 2015 — and they are labeling their products nationwide! The company’s decision was due in part to emails from concerned consumers like you.
You can read more about the news in the Chicago Tribune.
Hello! If we use the cover that the Sassy Stork makes – it only covers the existing car seat cover. Does this cover help protect against the FRs in the foam? If I were to cover my Orbit G3 cover with another cover, would this protect the baby? Thank you!!
This is a great post and great comments. I too purchased an Orbit and just cannot believe its just the fabric not the foam that has no FR. I had no idea they changed that on their site.
I’m looking forward to the Healthystuff.org results, aren’t they due back any day now?
Also I read that post about the carseatlady. No one here is saying car seats should not have FR. But there are natural forms of FR, like wool! I wish someone would make a car seat with something like latex, add no FR, and cover it in wool. Wouldn’t that work? It’s just like a lot of the newer mattresses that are coming out. Or would that not work?
We got the Nuna Pipa and stroller after hearing from 2 different sources that they tested neg for FR and reading A LOT of different reviews on other seats and strollers- we’re really happy with both!
I just got back my duke results for the mountain buggy protect carseat. I sent in three samples (infant insert, light foam from liner, dark foam from liner). All samples were “none identified” for the seven tested flame retardants.
I ordered an Orbit infant seat a few weeks ago and once it arrived was pleased to find it had zero odor upon opening the packaging. Since then I’ve researched more and realized Orbit was not the safest in terms of FR, and subsequently ordered the Nuna Pipa as a replacement. The Pipa arrived today and upon opening we were hit with an incredibly strong chemical odor, and found it strongest near the foam. Disappointed and concerned we immediately put it outside. I am now thoroughly confused by presence of the intense, treated smell when this is supposed to be one of the best seat choices for toxicity. Has anyone experienced this? I assume the strong odor is the telltale sign of treated materials and not just the “new” smell. With my newborn due in a few weeks I’m struggling to determine what is safest. Thanks!
When will Duke open up testing again?
Duke opened up testing again. I’m sending in foam from my phil & teds car seat, latex mattress, and “organic” couches. I bought a phil & teds stroller, if there’s no foam how would I test it?
Hi everyone. I was wondering if anyone could suggest a non toxic playpen/ play yard? I know baby bjorn makes a travel crib but it looks a bit small.
Hello,
Thank you so much for this blog! There is so much confusing information out there. After reading all the comments, it seems like the Nuna Pipa would be the best choice for an infant carrier and the Clek for a toddler convertible car seat. Am I correct on this? Any other recommendations for less pricey carriers/car seats that are still safe? Also, its seems that both Nuna and Clek are free of bromine and chlorine flame retardant chemicals, but what chemicals were these two replaced with to meet the flammability standards? I also have the Uppa Baby G-lite stroller which does not have any foam. Does anyone know if it has flame retardants in the fabric? Thanks so much!
So, I was in the process of submitting my sample to duke for my phil & teds car seat. I could not find any foam in it at all. Even the newborn insert was just polyester fill, but it was supposed to be poly foam… Baffling.
So interesting. When did you buy the phil and teds seat… I wonder if they changed it after many inquiries and disappointed/angry consumers.
They only came on the market in October of 2014.
Lynda, their website says the car seat is made from EPS foam. strange yours didn’t have any foam?
Phil & Ted’s carseat and Mountain Buggy carseat are the exact same carseat. It’s just a different color. I confirmed it by calling 3 different times. They are the same company. Alisona mentioned she sent in hers Mountain Buggy carseat and it came back with no FR of the ones they test. That’s because Phil & Ted’s/Mountain Buggy use a different organic FR (whatever that means). So while Duke doesn’t test for it, they still use one.
Does anyone know if the Orbit G3 stroller seat contains foam and thus flame retardants? Sadly I have the orbit infant car seat and stroller base and now that my baby is close to outgrowing the infant seat I’m thinking of replacing the car seat with the clek. For the stroller, I’m hoping I can keep the base and get the orbit stroller seat if that is safe. Ugh!
Summer Infant told me that none of their strollers contain flame retardant chemicals. Anyone have any insight into whether this sounds right? Thanks!
I just wanted to share that I just got my results from Duke on my 2014 Clek Foonf and none of the 7 flame retardants that they test for were identified in the foam.
Thank you! That’s great news!
What fabric did you test?
If you don’t mind telling what was the color of your car seat?
So what is the bottom line about Diono? The clek is great but its a fortune.
We have one, but we got it in summer 2013 after extensive conversations with various employees (including their “Chief Safety Officer”) assuring us that no chemical flame retardants were used on the foam or the fabric if we chose storm or rugby. We had ours tested by Duke about a year ago and it did come back with one of the mainstream, horrible FR chemicals (it wasn’t TDCPP/tris but it was something very similar). I am STILL going back and forth with Diono about it. That said, we love the seat – it feels very safe and secure, is very narrow/low profile overall but surprisingly roomy for our still rear-facing, now average-large 2.5 year old daughter. So many other seats seem like big buckets, and this is much more of a regular “seat” which to me looks really comfortable and she always seems happy in it. Considering there do not seem to be any perfect options out there, we have been very pleased with it. I decided my level of stress about it wasn’t healthy either, and that I am minimizing/eliminating her exposure to FRs in as many places as I can. I BUT I am still annoyed and frustrated at the misinformation I was given, because the lack of chemical FRs was largely why we chose the seat. We are now expecting #2 and I just hope by the time I need to get a new seat for that little one, there will be truly better, healthier, safer options on the market.
Was your model in the storm or rugby color?
I just spent 2 hours in buy buy baby and bought the 2015 radian RXT in the shadow color, which I now think is wrong. It was on super clearance since it was a floor model for $135. Do you guys think since it was a floor model its been aired out enough from the FR’s? Now I feel even Diono’s claim about the storm and rugby colors being FR free, I can’t truly trust. I called Clek and they said that only their fabrics are FR free and proprietorially can’t divulge about being FR free for the rest of the car seat. It feels like there is nothing that is actually FR free and its all a crap shoot.
Thank you for news on the Clek- that’s great news!
We are still really happy with our Nuna Pipa too. It is a great seat, and the car seat tech loved both the Clek Fllo for their safety features and ease of installation.
Thank you again for this website- it has been very helpful.
Healthystuff.org (aka ecocenter.org) report on car seats is out. http://www.ecocenter.org/node/1769/
Also, I read to vacuum the seat with a HEPA filter – thought that was good tip!
FOR EVERYONE FOLLOWING (WHICH IS A LOT OF US, I KNOW!!!) THE NEW STUDY WAS JUST RELEASED BY HEALTHYSTUFF.ORG. I’m about to delve through it, but was so excited I just had to post it first. We’ve been waiting for this for so long!!! http://www.ecocenter.org/healthy-stuff/reports/childrens-car-seat-study
So, they only tested 15 car seats and the Foonf wasn’t tested in the same way as the others. They have this note: “NOTE: Due to timing issues, the Clek Foonf was not included in the main sample set and was instead tested separately. The testing laboratory was only capable of testing for a more limited set of flame retardants. Clek states that organo-phosphate flame retardants are used in their PU Foam.”
I cannot get this link to work. Do you have a list of the results by chance?
Also, for anyone debating a Clek, it obstructs my view rearfacing. We’re going to return it. But, it looks like everything has FR of some sort, still. Britax (amazingly) is at the top of the list of better ones.
In reply to the person who said the Clek interferes with her rear vision, I suppose it depends on your car. We have a Subaru Legacy wagon, and the Clek Foonf doesn’t impair my vision at all. It’s below the level of the seat, and doesn’t even impair my vision looking sideways. It’s a great seat!
For our infant we found the Nuna car seat and are very satisfied with it and their other less toxic products. Still desperately looking for a better seat for our toddler though.
I recently sold my uppa baby vista due to FR, and purchased a Mountain Buggy plus one stroller (I have been reassured 10x they don’t use FR, not sure what else to do to check). I am using a hand me down Chicco Keyfit 30 which I see in the new car seat report came out as a “medium” risk. I want to get a new car seat since I have to give the Chicco back. I saw someone said they sent their Mountain Buggy car seat in for testing to Duke and it came back with no FR. Does that mean I can go ahead and buy that car seat without worry? I have to watch the amount of research I do because I drive myself (and my family) nuts! Just want what’s best for my baby without it controlling my life. I have a Britax Marathon convertible for when she gets older, which is still in the box so I can return if needed to Babies R Us. Any help is great
Need a little help/advice here! I am mom of a 6 month old baby girl and didn’t stumble onto all of this until AFTER I recieved all of my baby registry products and she was a few months old 🙁 Anyway, I have to watch what I research so it doesn’t control my life and freak me out majorly ???? I was able to sell my Uppa Baby Vista that still was manufactured with flame retardants and purchased a Mountain Buggy plus one (havent recieved it yet). My baby is in a Chicco Keyfit 30 which I saw came back in the new report with medium risk (not happy, but thankful it’s not “high”). Since I’m borrowing the seat I’m going to give it back, and get a new car seat. I saw that someone has their Mountain Buggy Car Seat tested by Duke and it came back with no detection. Does that mean I can go ahead and order their car seat withoit worry? I have a 25% coupon to mountain buggy and it’s also compatible with stroller (they have limited car seat compatibility). I have a Marathon Britax from my registry that hasn’t been opened for when she is bigger, I saw that came back with “low” concern, but I’m not sure mine is the same color. Should I return for the exact car seat tested? Or something totally different?
A little help would be great!
Love,
Nervous Mama ????
Sorry for two (now three) posts! Thought my first deleted.
Hi all. I was happy to stumble across this blog. Just got news about the Orbit from the new study out by ecocenter. We had purchased one for our baby–due in the fall–and, after I called Orbit Customer Service really frustrated about the results, they agreed to accept it back (and are sending shipping labels to cover the cost). But now we’re at a loss as to what to get for an infant. Clek Foonf with the infant insert or Nuna Pippa?? Any suggestions? It seems that there is still some debate as to what these seats do and don’t have in them. I’m a first-time mom and feeling overwhelmed by what I’m learning re: the crap companies expose babies to. Advice and suggestions really welcome!
I’m so close to getting a Foonf, but it still seems like there’s a lot of uncertainty about the chemicals in it. I’m tempted to go with a Diono since it will convert to a booster at some point. Any thoughts? Thanks to all for this great resource. Nice to know we can help each other when we can’t trust marketing.
And now britax has done really well on the healthystuff.org review. My concern is the unknown organophosphate FR used in place of the ones they removed. But Clek has the fluorochemivsl concerns. Stop using flame retardants in our stuff!!
*fluorochemical*
Check out Nirvana Safe Haven for carbon filter covers to cover toxic seats, furniture, mattresses! I recently came across these and have been recommending them to all my friends to cover car seats, etc. Also great for those who cannot afford the switch yet to organic beds and furniture.
The Clek is on Sale now!! http://thefreebaby.com/get-a-great-deal-on-a-non-toxic-car-seat/
Does anyone know whether the Clek Foonf in Paige (seat cover made of leather) contains chlorinated and brominated flame retardants in the foam? Would a leather cover carseat (assuming chemicals are used to soften the leather) be safer than a Crypton fabric carseat?
I called Clek regarding the leather Foonf carseats and I was told that to their knowledge chlorinated and brominated flame retardants are not added BUT that they can’t claim they are “statistically” (yes, they used that word) free of flame retardants because there has not been any official testingof the leather, unlike the Crypton fabric carseats. The customer service representative agreed that leather is “inherently flame resistant” and he said the leather is natural, not synthetic (aka vinyl).
I’m looking to purchase the safest infant carrier option for my baby due in December. According to healthy stuff. Org the britax came out leading brand for less chemicals used. I called to ask which models are safe (after what date) and she told me January 2013 or after. Does anyone have any different information regarding this? Thank you!
I think it’s a good option 🙂
I actually returned my Clek and got a Britax.
http://www.bearhfti.ca.gov/about_us/tb117_juvenilenotice.pdf
Just spoke to a representative from California Bureau of home furnishings and the manufacturers of all of the juvenile items listed are exempt and don’t have to declare whether they have used flame retardants on their products. The new law that came into effect on January 2015 which mandates for furniture manufacturers to indicate whether flame retardants have been used only applies to furniture and not to baby products such as high chairs, play mats, booster seats, etc.!
Hi! I am curious to know if you know what car seats out there that does not use any flames retardants? We currently have the orbit g2 aswell as the diono radian txt in Storm colour!
Thanks in advance x
None, they all still use it if there is foam. Brittax tested the best. Orbit has lied and uses the worst FRs, same with Diono including Storm & Rugby. Phil & Teds is claiming no FR but I don’t trust it until someone tests it.
I have a Phil & Teds. I was going to send in the foam for testing but when I went to retrieve it there was no foam, just the Styrofoam stuff which I thought didn’t contain FR and couldn’t be tested anyway. When I cut open the fabric it was just polyester.
I bought Diono Radian in 2012 based on their info that it does not have any FR. After the news came out that it did in fact have them, I have been wanting to change the cover. BUT, I still have so many things to replace (my bed, mattress, couch) that I feel that maybe the money is better spent elsewhere. However, I can’t buy the bed, couch and mattress at this moment (unfortunately), but I can buy the cover since it’s not as big of an expense, but I still wonder if the money is spent wisely. Yes, it does bother me that it has FR, but doesn’t the whole car? Does making the car seat FR free make a difference since she is sitting in it directly? Isn’t it the dust that is the problem, not necessarily touching car seat (since it’s in the foam anyway)? I am sure the seat in the car is not any better and wouldn’t that pollute the air in the car anyway, so changing the car seat alone will be like removing a drop from the ocean? Plus she doesn’t spend more than an hour a day in the car anyway. I am struggling with it because I know we can afford to change the cover, but at the same time I could spend that money elsewhere. The couch, mattress, and bed are huge expenses (wish i could find a more affordable FR free couch!). Can someone help me with my dilemma?
I go through the same dilemma… But unfortunately we can’t control everything. It becomes exhausting and the stress almost becomes more toxic than the chemicals!!!! I don’t have an easy solution for you but I do a few things that make me feel better. I
Buy an organic mattress encasement and use that on the beds. They sell ones that zipper around the whole mattress. As for the couch I don’t have any advice. Organic couches are very pricey although there are companies out there that sell them. I know Ikea has organic mattresses. They have stricter standards as well… I emailed them and was pleased with the response. As for the car seat I went crazy! I hated the diono radian in storm. It had such a strong chemical odor and after two replacements I finally returned the whole thing and bought the clek which I am pleased with. But like you said the whole Car is filled with toxins so i don’t know how much it really helps. Any little bit is better than none but we are up against a lot!!! They say to open the doors for a minute or so before getting in the car especially when it’s hot out to air it out. We can only do the best we can in the situations we are in. Good luck!!!
Yes, there is a certain amount of “does it matter” in the car since the whole thing has FR. I personally prefer to go Britax, since they seem to be safest, and have affordable options, too. Changing a cover negates the warranty, so I personally wouldn’t risk it, but others do. You can buy FROM free furniture at Ikea and target now…tgt, you have to flip it over to see, Ikea you have to buy from a store and double-check…I just called and they said online uses a warehouse that sill has FR stuff. Likely yr couch will be made of polyester which is also not ideal, but unless yr spending 3k+ to go organic or getting cotton velour, it’seems better than FR. I’m currently looking for a FR free one slipcovered in cotton.
When I was buying the car seat, Britax was rated as one of the worst as far as chemicals and so I tried to stay far away from it. Now it seems it ranks better than Diono. I am still so disappointed in Diono for lying. I may just go ahead and change the cover but then I also keep reading how it’s not safe to do. I personally don’t see how a well fitting (same fit as original) cover is any less safe, as long as the buckles work as intended. But with all the warnings it does make me a bit concerned. And then of course there is the expense and doubt if I am really making any difference in exposure. I want to spend my dollar where it matters most and trying to live a healthy and toxin free lifestyle can get very expensive!
As far as the couches, I would love to get an organic wool couch, no foam, but wow, they are so expensive. So I guess for now I may settle on Ikea couch that is now hopefully FR free and thus a little better than our current one. Then our mattress and bed (it’s upholstered).
For what it’s worth, I did a healthy living consult with an epidemiologist at Harvard. And she said the single most important thing you can do is your mattress and your children’s mattresses, that those are by far the most important things to be flame retardant free after that it’s probably the couch, but anything in the car is less important. Now, I’m not saying that’s what I did. That’s just with this particular consultant said. She also said beyond the mattress, the next most important thing is actually the stuff that you put on your skin because we don’t really have a good way to eliminate toxins through our skin.
Thanks! That definitely makes sense, the bed and the couch is where we spend the most time. It does bother me that both our bed and couch are still full of chemicals. I got my daughter an organic crib mattress which sadly she never used (what a waste of money), she hated her crib and ended up co-sleeping with us till she was 2, so she was sleeping on our crappy mattress, while her organic cotton mattress is unused. At 2 she moved to a big bed and I got a FR free latex mattress (hopefully it is, I feel like we can’t trust anyone anymore). Did she say if there is a way to detox from FR? From what I read they accumulate and are not easy to remove, but I hope there is some way to detox.
I called Diono again today to ask why they lied about the FR and she told me that the Duke University results are not in line with theirs and smth about their methods not being right. She said she would send me an email explaining it. She said they don’t spray their foam but when asked if the foam manufacturer does she said she believed so and had no idea which ones. So basically they are clueless, so how can they claim it doesn’t contain the ones that Duke University found? (anyone knows which ones were found in Diono, btw)?
Been reading through the comments and Im still a bit confused.. what toddler car seat is the healthiest? Im thinking clek foonf?
i am also confused. I bought the diono and since it doesnt have an adjustable height it renders teh front seat useless. the cleks and britax’s have adjustable heights but only go up to 65 pounds. Are all britax marathons OK or just that discontinued wave color? i wish this wasn’t so hard.
Hi,
I purchased a Britax Roundabout G4.1 convertible car seat, silverlake December 1 2014. I cut and sent in samples of the foam and the cover to CEH for testing. Jan 13 2015 they responded with this “We screened the 4 samples you sent in with our x-ray fluorescence analyzer. Fortunately, our screenings did not detect significant levels of either chlorine or bromine, chemicals which would otherwise suggest the likely use of flame retardant chemicals.” So, I feel comfortable using this car seat. I also use a nomie car seat cover with this seat, I bought it before I got the results from CEH, but it is so much easier to remove to clean. I’ve been using the britax roundabout with my baby since she was a newborn. I used an umbrella stroller from walmart since she was 3 months old, and an ergo carrier so I avoided strollers with polyurethane foam. I’ve removed all polyurethane foam from our house years ago, except for a darn convertible ikea sofa which did test positive for fire retardants and so I covered it with a zippered bed bug cover until I can get rid of it. I hope this info is helpful, and its great that so many mothers are so careful and thoughtful about protecting our babies from toxins.
It is confusing 🙂 I personally think Britax or Clek
So what’s the verdict on lightweight stroller? I was looking at different strollers at buy buy baby and each has some kind of foam in it. I have Nuna mixx but sometimes I need lightweight stroller to hop on and off from buses and trains.
So what’s the verdict on umbrella/light weight stroller? I was at buy buy baby yesterday and every single of them has foam in it. I am so confused.
Hi friends! Just wanted to share this here — thanks to this wonderful forum of people — I was able to provide a local retailer with enough information to stop selling Orbit – and it is making national news! Here’s a link to the video http://www.cbsnews.com/videos/oregon-anti-government-activists-seize-federal-buildings/ I have to smile at the Sprout rep saying “I opened that email and said nooooooo” that email was from me 😉 and it contained Duke testing results that were shared with me here. Keep fighting the good fight! Support Arlene Blum and Sprout San Francisco – a retailer we can truly trust. They sell online, too.
That’s awesome! I love how we can make change happen!
Thank you so much for you hard work Katie!!
Argh – wrong link to video – here’s the correct one: http://www.cbsnews.com/videos/chemicals-in-foam-raise-concerns-about-baby-car-seats/
I know that Healthystuff.org only tested 3 Britax seats (2 of which are booster seats), and the Britax website references these rankings and boasts that they’re the best in terms of low FR emissions. Is it reasonable to assume that their strollers and infant seats are ALSO among the safest? Or is utilizing Duke for independent testing the only way to really know? Has anyone tested Britax infant seats, strollers or other convertible seats not tested through Healthystuff.org?
I’m wondering the same thing. I’m considering buying the Britax B-safe, but can’t seem to find any information about the toxicity of that particular seat. I suppose you can always call Britax directly and ask them.
I was able to get a Britax Marathon in McCoy really cheap, my lo is outgrowing our Phil and teds. The Britax was manufactured 10/2015, has anyone tested theirs? I seen the marathon in blue was tested and it was the least toxic hoping it’s the same for all colors?
I think app colors should be the same
Has anyone tested foam in strollers? I now need a double stroller but all seem to have foam. Has anyone found a foam free stroller?? BOB is claiming to be FR free – I still don’t like the PU coating. Mountain Buggy claims to be FR free. My single Mountain Buggy has no foam but the doubles all have foam. Any others out there before I delve deep into the double stroller world 🙂
Any updates here? In same boat! (I’m pending membership on facebook group)
HI.
I recently bought a Bumbleride stroller . They don’t use FR ( at least that what they saying). Kandi (Bumbleride)
Mar 25, 1:22 PM
Hello.
The fabric is made of polyester and the inside of the canopy is TPU. Flame retardants were required by Law in California but in 2013 that changed and so we removed them from our products.
They also have Oeko Tex certification.
However I am still going to test the foam.
Update?
Question for you ladies. I just got a Clek Fllo but thought that you could remove the fabric and wash it. I read that it was a pain but figured it would be worth it before having my child sit in it. However, I now see they only say to spot wash it with soap and a spray bottle. For those of you that have one of these, what did you do? I guess the really bad stuff wouldn’t wash out anyways?? I just feel weird not washing it before use.
Sorry if this is a double post, I didn’t see my comment. What about only being able to spot clean the Clek? I’m not a fan of not washing prior to use with baby. Anyone ever get the cover off and wash it in a machine? Am I overthinking this as it has chemicals in it that won’t wash out anyways? I just bought the Clek Fllo but then realized that. I see the Britax can be washed but it is made in China which is a negative. Why is this so hard???
I submitted my Britax Marathon in McCoy to Duke. I will update with the results when j get them.
Do you know how long it will take? I need to upgrade soon and was eyeing the exact same one! Thanks!
They said about 4 weeks. Hoping for sooner
I’m interested in finding out what Duke finds with the Marathon. I find it frustrating that on the Britax website there is no ‘McCoy’ color option. Similarly, per the ecocenter.org car seat ratings, I can’t find their highest rated Frontier Clicktight or their Parkway at all on the Britax website.
It seems as though there are just new models and fabrics every year! How can we keep up? Are we just to Google a model/color we feel confident in and order from a distributor?
I personally didn’t worry about color options. Britax made a change in the FRs that they used in their seats in 2013. If you order from a distributor they most likely aren’t going to have a seat from 2013 still.
I’ve just created a closed Facebook group as a way the Natural Baby Mama community can discuss non-toxic items. Whether you are wanting to know what car seat to buy, questioning non-toxic baby items or items for you or your home, this is will be a great resource and open line of communication. Please like the Natural Baby Mama Facebook page and join the closed group at https://www.facebook.com/groups/223493848003000/?hc_location=ufi.
I’m looking forward to interacting with you more in the closed group!
Any updates on Orbit or which car seat seems the least toxic for a toddler? It’s all so overwhelming! I appreciate thoughts and help.
Don’t buy Orbit – I will never support them again even if they clean things up. Look at Britax or Clek. We went with a Britax.
I just bought a Clek Fllo for me 16 month old (who used an Orbit G2 infant seat up until recently) and am now wondering if I should swap it for a Britax Boulevard instead. The latest results of the Healthy Stuff 2016 Car Seat Report show some bromine and (a lot) of chlorine in Clek’s 2016 Foonf. Britax got a higher recommendation than Clek which surprised me. We bought my son a Britax Frontier Clicktight a few months ago and it smelled SO bad so it turned me off of Britax (and the Fllo barely smelled like anything…)
What do you think? Britax Boulevard Clicktight or Clek Fllo?
Thanks!
Didn’t go through all the comments, so hopefully this isn’t repeat info. I decided to remove the car seat cover and shade. Bought organic cotton and sewed it into a shade. Also had organic cotton sewn into a bassinet size sheet -where I live it would have actually been cheaper to buy an organic bassinet sheet online. Bought organic cotton batting. Took the batting and the sheet and cut holes in them to fit where the seatbelt treads through to make my own fit any car seat style cover. Pricier than it would’ve been if I had bought the sheet online but way cheaper than any etsy company I found. Just thought I’d share
Hi, was this blog continued for 2015 or 2016? Trying to find most recent info on chems in infant car seats! Thank you.
Let me know what questions you have – I’m happy to help.
After hours of research, I think I will be getting the Nuna Pipa. I wrote an email to Nuna and they responded in less than 2 hours. Here was their response to my inquiry on the use of FR and chemicals in the Pipa:
Thank you for contacting Nuna. Nuna’s line of gear is made in an eco-friendly and ISO-certified factory and consists of best in class materials. We try to eliminate the use of potentially harmful substances in all of our products.
We follow the European REACH Standard, the European EN71 Standard, and the US Consumer Product Safety Improvement Act (CPSIA) to ensure the highest quality and safety in our products. These standards were implemented to improve product quality, product safety and are very specific in regard to absence and limitations of potentially harmful substances in products.
In some circumstances, to meet mandatory requirements, it is necessary for us to place chemical additives or treatments on our products. We try to not apply those treatments to areas that could come in contact with your child.
Our flame retardant is a proprietary formula from the ammonium polyphosphate family and does not contain halogenated FR including: PBB, PBDE or Bromine.
We do not treat with any Chlorinated Tris: TCEP, TPP, TOCP, TCPP, TDCPP, TDBPP, TBBPA.
All of our car seat testing is conducted and verified at independent third party laboratories, test results are proprietary. Our car seats are compliant to the current US standard, FMVSS 213 under NHTSA, and are certified for use in Motor Vehicles and Aircraft and has been appropriately labeled to show this compliance.
Sincerely,
Nuna
*** I personally feel very very good about this, esp. in comparison w/ response (or lack of) that I received from Britax and Chicco. I sent an email to Britax customer service almost a week ago, and have received absolutely no response, except an email stating someone would get back to me***
Here was Chicco’s response:
Dear Chicco Customer,
Thank you for taking the time to contact us. Chicco is very aware of and concerned about recent studies which discuss the toxicity of certain chemicals or elements in child car seats. ALL Chicco products meet or exceed the stringent safety standards in the U.S. and Europe regarding chemical content.
***What exactly does this tell me that I didn’t already know? What it tells me is that they are using toxic chemicals and they are blaming “stringent safety standards”. If they are concerned about studies, then why couldn’t they explain in detail what they use and what they do not?
I was strongly considering the Chicco KeyFit but after that response, I will not be buying ANY Chicco products.
Does anyone have any more information regarding the Pipa – I just need a little push and I will be ordering it this weekend but if there is another option for around the same price that I do not know about, I would love to look into it. Thank you and thank you for this post- it has been the most helpful resource I have used so far!
How come no one has mentioned Peg Perego car seats – supposedly very similar in use of (or lack of) chemicals compared to Nuna and the same price AND sold at Buy Buy Baby in the US and Amazon, with great reviews!
I found another site where they were quick in their response time and stated “The Flame Retardant coating used in our fabrics is based on poliurethanic alifatic phosfonate in a water based solution (i.e. no solvents are released in the atmosphere during the process). It is also halogen free and heavy metal free since our fabric suppliers are OekoTex Standard 100 certified.
Our car seats and high chair are also BPA and Phthalate free and there are no known toxins or carcinogens present.
The shell and base of the car seat are made from Polypropylene Plastic (PP)”
Hey you might want to hop over to this Facebook group natural baby mama non toxic community. There is more conversation over there, then here. Hope to see you there!
Hello! Will you be updating this post at all? Looks like its been about 3 years since an update so I am sure much has changed! I hope you have new recommendations and input on finding the least toxic car seat!
I’m freaking out. I was on the Orbit website last night in wanting to purchase the G3 Toddler Carseat and there’s nothing being sold on the website other than parts and accessories. That left a weird feeling in my gut and so I did some research and saw that Orbit was going out of business/being bought by Ergobaby and then I found a link with concerns for TDCPP found in the carseats. I bought the infant g3 car seat back in January of 2016, complete with the stroller and two car seat bases. Is mine affected? Can I get it recalled? I’m super confused as to what to do. My son is 9 months old and if his car seat is filled with toxins and chemicals, how do I get him tested and what kind of car seat do I go with? Money isn’t really an option when it comes to my babies health. Thank you!
Sorry I’m just seeing this. They didn’t do a recall, they actually never admitted fault which is probably why they went out of business. I would switch car seats in you haven’t done so yet.
The posture which the child gets in this product is ok for short ride. the product is however safe and sturdy. have used is for 6 months now.